Skousen's Introduction to Book of Mormon

[_Goya]

You're comparing keystone religious texts and saying some have a lot more written about them than The Book of Mormon.Some have less written about them than The Book of Mormon.

The sacred texts and scriptures from antiquity have more written about them. The sacred texts and scriptures from the last century or so have less. The Book of Mormon, however, seems to be in a class of its own in regards to the amount of critical commentary/exegesis that has been written. For example, the Bahai faith...brought up earlier in this thread...has scripture/sacred text. There seems to be little critical exegesis/commentary on this scriptural work however.

...Taherzadeh's series Revelation of Bahá'u'lláh is by far the most extensive source of information on Bahá'u'lláh's various writings, giving details such as when they were revealed, to whom, and under what circumstances. Unfortunately the work has no information on the Middle Eastern social and historical context of Bahá'u'lláh, and how that context influenced his writings, and is not written critically, from a scholarly point of view, and thus must be used carefully. Extensive historical-critical scholarship on Bahá'u'lláh's writings remains to be done...
http://bahai-library.org/books/rg/rg.biblio07.html

You think it's amazing that The Book of Mormon has more written about it than the texts of religions that have less written about them.

In regards to the scriptures/sacred texts produced in the last couple of hundred years or so, yes...I think it is, at the very least, interesting to see the voluminous amount of material on the Book of Mormon juxtaposed with the material/books that have been published as critical commentary and/or exegesis on some of these other modern writings.

It's maybe not so obvious to some of us what your larger point about this is.

As I said towards the beginning of this thread...the Book of Mormon in some respects is unique/different/set apart from other scriptural/sacred texts that have been produced in recent times. To me, that makes the Book of Mormon worth a look. And a second look...

Worthy of taking it down off the shelf and giving it a run through and real study over and over again. When I do, I am...as you say..."amazed" at the breadth and depth of this book which came out of nineteenth century New England. THAT is quite a story in and of itself. Story of the plates. Retrieval. Translation. Publication. Wide distribution. Tool for conversion to Christ, etc.

Regards,
MG

You obviously have not read anything on Bahá'í or its scripture, which you casually dismiss based on a Google search and your own preordained misconceptions. But I'd mistakenly thought that you were serious in wanting comparisons.

There have been tonnes written about Bahá'í and its texts. The movement has been the source of enormous debate within Islam. If you read about it, you'd see that the parallels to Mormonism are striking.

Is the Book of Mormon worthy of a second look? Certainly. I'd argue that most religious texts are. However, The Book of Mormon is in no way unique. Nor set apart. Nor any more special than any other religious tome.

But perhaps, I'm wrong and you can show how it is--rather than just declare it to be so.

[_Lemmie]

So how about if we don't play your little games of duck and dodge and distort? You know, things like editing other people's words, lying about what happens in threads, dismissing whole categories of study without justification, etc. etc. What do you say?

That would be a breath of fresh air, Maks.

[_Goya]

Just read WHAT HE SAYS, and see if you can find any faults in:

1. The validity of his arguments.

2. The evidence he uses.

If you can't, then why wouldn't you accept his conclusions? Oh yes, because of your 'biases/prejudices', I suppose. Figures.

Back to a question I asked earlier:

by the way, does anyone know if Jenkins' considers himself to be a practicing Christian?

He obviously believes Jesus Christ existed. Does he view him as Savior/God?

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/anxiousben ... cal-jesus/

Whether he does or doesn't would possibly inform any biases/prejudices he may have or not have as he goes about his scholarly ways/work?

Regards,
MG

No, one doesn't just assume that someone else has a bias. You need to show how they're demonstrating bias.

Saying that Jenkins is biased because of his purported religious affiliation is like saying someone is racist because they are white.

[_Lemmie]

I think it is, at the very least, interesting to see the voluminous amount of material on the Book of Mormon juxtaposed with the material/books that have been published as critical commentary and/or exegesis on some of these other modern writings.

Why is volume interesting? That idea has been debunked so many times in this thread alone, from the volume of BoMs to the volume of writings about Book of Mormon. For a different approach, here is Jenkins quoting from a farcical review that points out the fallacy of 'volume' making something meaningful:

Do me a favor. Go over to a window and look outside. I’ll wait. Okay, are you looking? See anything extraordinary? Yup, it is pigs flying. So many pigs. That should explain how a Graham Hancock book is being reviewed in American Antiquity. And it is about time. Since its publication in 1995, the book is estimated to have sold more than three million copies and has been published in 27 languages. As archaeologists, we ignore such a phenomenon at our peril.
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/anxiousben ... le-beasts/

[_mentalgymnast]

You obviously have not read anything on Bahá'í...

Here and there over the years I have read this and that in regards to teh Bahai faith. To be truthful, each time I've touched upon anything 'Bahia' I've come away having respect for that faith and their people.

...or its scripture...

No, I am not familiar with the scriptural works of the Bahai faith as I have not read them except for some bits and pieces here and there.

...which you casually dismiss based on a Google search...

Having not read any of the Bahai scriptural works and/or sacred texts...what would you expect?

...and your own preordained misconceptions.

I'm not sure that I had any preordained misconceptions as a result of the fact that I really don't have much in the way of a deeper knowledge of the Bahai faith and/or its scriptural/sacred texts.

But I'd mistakenly thought that you were serious in wanting comparisons.

I am. Can you help me?

There have been tonnes written about Bahá'í and its texts.

Could you refer me to one book that you think would be the 'go to' book in regards to an exegetical/critical approach to the text? From an apologetic stance?

The movement has been the source of enormous debate within Islam. If you read about it, you'd see that the parallels to Mormonism are striking.

That, I HAVE noticed at the times/junctures in which I've 'glanced' at the Bahai faith.

Is the Book of Mormon worthy of a second look? Certainly. I'd argue that most religious texts are. However, The Book of Mormon is in no way unique. Nor set apart. Nor any more special than any other religious tome.

I'm not going to argue that with you. If you believe the sacred texts of the Bahai faith to have spiritual significance in your life, that's important. And if it leads you towards a greater good I am fine with that.

But perhaps, I'm wrong and you can show how it is--rather than just declare it to be so.

My argument is/was that the Book of Mormon is unique in a number of ways. It's also going to be similar in a number of ways to other scriptural/sacred texts.

I have a question...are any of the scriptural/sacred texts of the Bahai faith composed in narrative form where a story is being told that expands and/or takes place linearly over a period of time? Or are the texts more of an inspirational/homily nature?

Regards,
MG

[_mentalgymnast]

No, one doesn't just assume that someone else has a bias. You need to show how they're demonstrating bias.

Saying that Jenkins is biased because of his purported religious affiliation is like saying someone is racist because they are white.

Is it not OK to ask and/or find out whether or not Jenkins is a practicing Christian and believer in Jesus as Savior?

Simple question. Simple answer? Is it not 'politically correct' to even be asking this?

Regards,
MG

[Guest]

You obviously have not read anything on Bahá'í...

Here and there over the years I have read this and that in regards to the Bahai faith. To be truthful, each time I've touched upon anything 'Bahia' I've come away having respect for that faith and their people.

...or its scripture...

No, I am not familiar with the scriptural works of the Bahai faith as I have not read them except for some bits and pieces here and there.

...which you casually dismiss based on a Google search...

Having not read any of the Bahai scriptural works and/or sacred texts...what would you expect?

...and your own preordained misconceptions.

I'm not sure that I had any preordained misconceptions as a result of the fact that I really don't have much in the way of a deeper knowledge of the Bahai faith and/or its scriptural/sacred texts.

But I'd mistakenly thought that you were serious in wanting comparisons.

I am. Can you help me?

There have been tonnes written about Bahá'í and its texts.

Could you refer me to one book that you think would be the 'go to' book in regards to an exegetical/critical approach to the text? From an apologetic stance?

The movement has been the source of enormous debate within Islam. If you read about it, you'd see that the parallels to Mormonism are striking.

That, I HAVE noticed at the times/junctures in which I've 'glanced' at the Bahai faith.

Is the Book of Mormon worthy of a second look? Certainly. I'd argue that most religious texts are. However, The Book of Mormon is in no way unique. Nor set apart. Nor any more special than any other religious tome.

I'm not going to argue that with you. If you believe the sacred texts of the Bahai faith to have spiritual significance in your life, that's important. And if it leads you towards a greater good I am fine with that.

But perhaps, I'm wrong and you can show how it is--rather than just declare it to be so.

My argument is/was that the Book of Mormon is unique in a number of ways. It's also going to be similar in a number of ways to other scriptural/sacred texts.

I have a question...are any of the scriptural/sacred texts of the Bahai faith composed in narrative form where a story is being told that expands and/or takes place linearly over a period of time? Or are the texts more of an inspirational/homily nature?

Regards,
MG

Good God. Why don't you show the religion enough respect to go and read some of their texts yourself. You expect the whole freaking world to memorize the Book of Mormon and you're too lazy to do the polite and decent thing here? Everything has to be spoonfed you and then you diss it anyway.

Quit looking for another Grant Hardy/Teryl Givens type. There is a vast field of Religious Studies that you aren't even bothering to look at. It addresses what you SAY you are looking for. But you have to have the energy, desire and time to pursue it.

[_mentalgymnast]

So how about if we don't play your little games...

I will continue on my determined course of action...

Say what you will...

But yes, I will continue to act in a way so that my personal sense of integrity remains intact. That I have done in the past and will continue to do. As I mentioned earlier, we ALL...at times... may make what are considered to be errors in judgment and we may lack propriety. You/me/others included. We are ALL biased. That will play a part in the inner workings of our mind and conscious behavior/judgments...and our expressions at times.

You may just have to live with that fact.

I can. Which means I take what you say for what it's worth.

Regards,
MG

[_Maksutov]

So how about if we don't play your little games...

I will continue on my determined course of action...

Say what you will...

But yes, I will continue to act in a way so that my personal sense of integrity remains intact. That I have done in the past and will continue to do. As I mentioned earlier, we ALL...at times... may make what are considered to be errors in judgment and we may lack propriety. You/me/others included. We are ALL biased. That will play a part in the inner workings of our mind and conscious behavior/judgments...and our expressions at times.

You may just have to live with that fact.

I can. Which means I take what you say for what it's worth.

Regards,
MG

You were the one that used "games" first.

Please continue to act however you please. Your integrity? Really.

Of course we're all biased. But you are the one imputing bias to Jenkins and editing my words to do so. So your "personal integrity" allows you to forge exchanges and lie about it and pretend that it's somehow morally acceptable. Oh, and then rewrite the whole history of the thread, an even more extensive lie. But you pepper it with smilies to make it "civil".

I see your "personal integrity" for what it's worth.

[_mentalgymnast]

Good God. Why don't you show the religion enough respect to go and read some of their texts yourself. You expect the whole freaking world to memorize the Book of Mormon and you're too lazy to do the polite and decent thing here? Everything has to be spoonfed you and then you diss it anyway.

Quit looking for another Grant Hardy/Teryl Givens type. There is a vast field of Religious Studies that you aren't even bothering to look at. It addresses what you SAY you are looking for. But you have to have the energy, desire and time to pursue it.

Earlier...

I'm not going to play your little 'label' games. I told you earlier, Mak, this doesn't help conversation. But I'm willing to bypass the 'accusation and/or label game' every time you do it without making comment if that floats your boat and gives you an 'edge'.

I may just have to accept it and grin and bear it.

I think that is the best continued course of action. That leaves things wide open for you.

I'm not going to diss you. And I will continue to turn the other cheek.

OK. Here come the jokes...

Oh, by the way, I did respond in a respectful/honest way to the post you are referring to. Most folks will be able to see that.

Regards,
MG