The TRINITY in Old Testament

[_Mittens]

http://eom.BYU.edu/index.php/Lectures_on_Faith
Lectures on Faith

Lecture Five 2. There are two personages who constitute the great, matchless, governing, and supreme power over all things, by whom all things were created and made…. They are the Father and the Son: the Father being a personage of spirit, glory, and power, possessing all perfection and fulness. The Son, who was in the bosom of the Father, is a personage of tabernacle, made or fashioned like unto man, being in the form and likeness of man, or rather man was formed after his likeness and in his image. He is also the express image and likeness of the personage of the Father, possessing all the fulness of the Father, or the same fulness with the Father; being begotten of him, and ordained from before the foundation of the world to be a propitiation for the sins of all those who should believe on his name. He is called the Son because of the flesh

That's an 1835 edition. As has already been conceded--there has been an evolution of theology since that time, within the LDS church.

What happened first in Mormonism, the "first Vision concoction" or the "Lectures of Faith" yet you call it revolving revelation

Just as there was in the New Testament:

1 Corinthians 8:6---King James Version (KJV)

6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

I noticed you have not addressed that as of yet.

[_Maksutov]

Still arguing about sectarian abstractions. I guess not enough people died during the Wars of Religion. And now we get to enjoy sectarian Islamic terror as well.

Well, if Jesus said that he came to bring the sword, maybe he was telling us that he was going to introduce a new age of violence and terror. That certainly seems to be a big part of his legacy.

[_dberrie2000]

http://eom.BYU.edu/index.php/Lectures_on_Faith
Lectures on Faith

Lecture Five 2. There are two personages who constitute the great, matchless, governing, and supreme power over all things, by whom all things were created and made…. They are the Father and the Son: the Father being a personage of spirit, glory, and power, possessing all perfection and fulness. The Son, who was in the bosom of the Father, is a personage of tabernacle, made or fashioned like unto man, being in the form and likeness of man, or rather man was formed after his likeness and in his image. He is also the express image and likeness of the personage of the Father, possessing all the fulness of the Father, or the same fulness with the Father; being begotten of him, and ordained from before the foundation of the world to be a propitiation for the sins of all those who should believe on his name. He is called the Son because of the flesh

That's an 1835 edition. As has already been conceded--there has been an evolution of theology since that time, within the LDS church.

Just as there was in the New Testament:

1 Corinthians 8:6---King James Version (KJV)
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

I noticed you have not addressed that as of yet.

A call for Mittens to address the above scripture.

Could you explain for us why the New Testament writers separated out God the Son from the "one God" of the Biblical New Testament?

[_Mittens]

1. “To those who through the righteousness of Our God and Savior Jesus Christ,” 2 Peter 1:1
Emphatic Diaglott

2. “The glorious appearing of our Great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,” Titus 2:13 Emphatic Diaglott

3.”Keep watch over yourself and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has you overseer. Be shepherds of the Church of God, which he bought with his own blood.” Acts 20:28 New International V

4.”Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all forever praised amen” Romans 9:5 King James

5.”The life appeared, we have seen it and testified to it, and we proclaim to you the Eternal Life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us.” 1 John 1:2 King James and we are in him who is the true even in his son Jesus, He is the True God and Eternal Life,” 1 John 5:20 King James

6.”In the beginning, was the WORD, and the WORD was with GOD and the WORD was GOD Himself.” John 1:1 Amplified Version

7.”And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness; GOD was manifested in the flesh.” 1 Timothy 3:16 King James

8.”and Thomas answered and said to him “ My LORD and my God,” Jesus said to him :Thomas because you have seen me you have believed,” John 20:28 King James

9.”for in him dwells all the fullness of the GODHEAD BODILY,” Colossians 2:9 King James “GODHEAD” {Greek-Theotetos}. In Thayers Greek page 288; The state of being God

10.”who although being essentially one with God and in the Form of God {possessing the fullness of the attributes which make GOD GOD} did not think this equality with God was a thing to be grasped or retained.” Philippians 2:6 Amplified version

11.”No one has seen God {referring to the Father} BUT GOD the One and Only, who is at the Fathers side has made him known.” John 1:18 New International {Jehovah GOD was seen many times by the people, so in them cases it couldn’t be the Father, {had to be Jesus who was seen and called Jehovah.

“Moses and Aaron, Nahab and Abihu, and seventy of the Elders went up and saw God of Israel under his feet was something like pavement made of sapphire, clear as the sky it self, but God did not raise his hand against these leaders of Israelites, they saw God, and they ate and drank,” Exodus 24:9-11

“at this point the men turned from there way to Sodom but as for JEHOVAH he was standing still before Abraham….then JEHOVAH went his way when he had finished speaking to Abraham.” Genesis 18:22-33 New World Translation Genesis 18:2 says three men appeared to Abraham, two are identified as angels {Genesis 19:1} ONE IS IDENTIFIED AS JEHOVAH GOD Genesis 18:1,3,13,14,17,20,22,26,27,31,32 and 33

Genesis 19: 27
Now Abraham got up early in the morning and went to the place where he had stood before Jehovah

the biblical use of the word "firstborn" is most interesting. It can mean the first born child in a family (Luke 2:7), but it can also mean "pre-eminence." In Psalm 89:20, 27 it says, "I have found David My servant; with My holy oil I have anointed him...I also shall make him My first-born" (NASB). As you can see, David, who was the last one born in his family was called the firstborn by God. This is a title of preeminence.

Gen. 41:51-52, "And Joseph called the name of the first-born Manasseh: For, said he, God hath made me forget all my toil, and all my fatherï's house. And the name of the second called he Ephraim: For God hath made me fruitful in the land of my affliction" (NASB)

Jer. 31:9, "...for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is My firstborn (NASB)."

Daniel 7
13    “I was watching in the night visions,
    And behold, One like the Son of Man,
    Coming with the clouds of heaven!
    He came to the Ancient of Days,
    And they brought Him near before Him.
14    Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom,
    That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him.
    His dominion is an everlasting dominion,
    Which shall not pass away,
    And His kingdom the one
    Which shall not be destroyed.
Jesus refers to himself as the Son Of Man most often, Why does God the Father “Ancient of Days” tell people and nations to Worship Jesus?


http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Bib ... us-Is-God/

http://i.imgur.com/Iy8qy2z.jpg Chart

http://i.imgur.com/HKM5nsv.jpg Scriptures

[_dberrie2000]

1 Corinthians 8:6---King James Version (KJV)
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

I noticed you have not addressed that as of yet.

A call for Mittens to address the above scripture.

Could you explain for us why the New Testament writers separated out God the Son from the "one God" of the Biblical New Testament?

1. “To those who through the righteousness of Our God and Savior Jesus Christ,” 2 Peter 1:1
Emphatic Diaglott

2. “The glorious appearing of our Great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,” Titus 2:13 Emphatic Diaglott

3.”Keep watch over yourself and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has you overseer. Be shepherds of the Church of God, which he bought with his own blood.” Acts 20:28 New International V

4.”Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all forever praised amen” Romans 9:5 King James

5.”The life appeared, we have seen it and testified to it, and we proclaim to you the Eternal Life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us.” 1 John 1:2 King James and we are in him who is the true even in his son Jesus, He is the True God and Eternal Life,” 1 John 5:20 King James

6.”In the beginning, was the WORD, and the WORD was with GOD and the WORD was GOD Himself.” John 1:1 Amplified Version

7.”And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness; GOD was manifested in the flesh.” 1 Timothy 3:16 King James

8.”and Thomas answered and said to him “ My LORD and my God,” Jesus said to him :Thomas because you have seen me you have believed,” John 20:28 King James

9.”for in him dwells all the fullness of the GODHEAD BODILY,” Colossians 2:9 King James “GODHEAD” {Greek-Theotetos}. In Thayers Greek page 288; The state of being God

10.”who although being essentially one with God and in the Form of God {possessing the fullness of the attributes which make GOD GOD} did not think this equality with God was a thing to be grasped or retained.” Philippians 2:6 Amplified version

11.”No one has seen God {referring to the Father} BUT GOD the One and Only, who is at the Fathers side has made him known.” John 1:18 New International {Jehovah GOD was seen many times by the people, so in them cases it couldn’t be the Father, {had to be Jesus who was seen and called Jehovah.

“Moses and Aaron, Nahab and Abihu, and seventy of the Elders went up and saw God of Israel under his feet was something like pavement made of sapphire, clear as the sky it self, but God did not raise his hand against these leaders of Israelites, they saw God, and they ate and drank,” Exodus 24:9-11

“at this point the men turned from there way to Sodom but as for JEHOVAH he was standing still before Abraham….then JEHOVAH went his way when he had finished speaking to Abraham.” Genesis 18:22-33 New World Translation Genesis 18:2 says three men appeared to Abraham, two are identified as angels {Genesis 19:1} ONE IS IDENTIFIED AS JEHOVAH GOD Genesis 18:1,3,13,14,17,20,22,26,27,31,32 and 33

Genesis 19: 27
Now Abraham got up early in the morning and went to the place where he had stood before Jehovah

the biblical use of the word "firstborn" is most interesting. It can mean the first born child in a family (Luke 2:7), but it can also mean "pre-eminence." In Psalm 89:20, 27 it says, "I have found David My servant; with My holy oil I have anointed him...I also shall make him My first-born" (NASB). As you can see, David, who was the last one born in his family was called the firstborn by God. This is a title of preeminence.

Gen. 41:51-52, "And Joseph called the name of the first-born Manasseh: For, said he, God hath made me forget all my toil, and all my fatherï's house. And the name of the second called he Ephraim: For God hath made me fruitful in the land of my affliction" (NASB)

Jer. 31:9, "...for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is My firstborn (NASB)."

Daniel 7
13    “I was watching in the night visions,
    And behold, One like the Son of Man,
    Coming with the clouds of heaven!
    He came to the Ancient of Days,
    And they brought Him near before Him.
14    Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom,
    That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him.
    His dominion is an everlasting dominion,
    Which shall not pass away,
    And His kingdom the one
    Which shall not be destroyed.
Jesus refers to himself as the Son Of Man most often, Why does God the Father “Ancient of Days” tell people and nations to Worship Jesus?


http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Bib ... us-Is-God/

http://i.imgur.com/Iy8qy2z.jpg Chart

http://i.imgur.com/HKM5nsv.jpg Scriptures

Could you explain for us how any of this explains why the New Testament writers separated out God the Son from the "one God" of the Biblical text?

1 Timothy 2:5---King James Version (KJV)
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

[_Mittens]

Sure the Book of Mormon and Bible teach only ONE GOD exists and Jesus is GOD

2 Nephi 26:12 And as I spake concerning the convincing of the Jews, that Jesus is the very Christ, it must needs be that the Gentiles be convinced also that Jesus is the Christ, the Eternal God;


3 Nephi 11:17 Hosanna! Blessed be the name of the Most High God! And they did fall down at the feet of Jesus, and did worship him.

Mosiah 3:5 For behold, the time cometh, and is not far distant, that with power, the Lord Omnipotent who reigneth, who was, and is from all eternity to all eternity, shall come down from heaven among the children of men, and shall dwell in a tabernacle of clay, and shall go forth amongst men, working mighty miracles, such as healing the sick, raising the dead, causing the lame to walk, the blind to receive their sight, and the deaf to hear, and curing all manner of diseases.

3 Nephi 19:
18 And behold, they began to pray; and they did pray unto Jesus, calling him their Lord and their God.

Mosiah 5:15 Therefore, I would that ye should be steadfast and immovable, always abounding in good works, that Christ, the Lord God Omnipotent, may seal you his, that you may be brought to heaven, that ye may have everlasting salvation and eternal life, through the wisdom, and power, and justice, and mercy of him who created all things, in heaven and in earth, who is God above all. Amen.

2 Nephi 10:3
3 Wherefore, as I said unto you, it must needs be expedient that Christ—for in the last night the angel spake unto me that this should be his name—should come among the Jews, among those who are the more wicked part of the world; and they shall crucify him—for thus it behooveth our God, and there is none other nation on earth that would crucify their God.

Jesus is God above all, our Lord and God, God from Eternity, the Most High God, Lord God omnipotent and the eternal God according to the Book of Mormon

1. “To those who through the righteousness of Our God and Savior Jesus Christ,” 2 Peter 1:1
Emphatic Diaglott

2. “The glorious appearing of our Great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,” Titus 2:13 Emphatic Diaglott

3.”Keep watch over yourself and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has you overseer. Be shepherds of the Church of God, which he bought with his own blood.” Acts 20:28 New International V

4.”Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all forever praised amen” Romans 9:5 King James

5.”The life appeared, we have seen it and testified to it, and we proclaim to you the Eternal Life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us.” 1 John 1:2 King James and we are in him who is the true even in his son Jesus, He is the True God and Eternal Life,” 1 John 5:20 King James

6.”In the beginning, was the WORD, and the WORD was with GOD and the WORD was GOD Himself.” John 1:1 Amplified Version

7.”And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness; GOD was manifested in the flesh.” 1 Timothy 3:16 King James

8.”and Thomas answered and said to him “ My LORD and my God,” Jesus said to him :Thomas because you have seen me you have believed,” John 20:28 King James

9.”for in him dwells all the fullness of the GODHEAD BODILY,” Colossians 2:9 King James “GODHEAD” {Greek-Theotetos}. In Thayers Greek page 288; The state of being God

10.”who although being essentially one with God and in the Form of God {possessing the fullness of the attributes which make GOD GOD} did not think this equality with God was a thing to be grasped or retained.” Philippians 2:6 Amplified version
11.”No one has seen God {referring to the Father} BUT GOD the One and Only, who is at the Fathers side has made him known.” John 1:18 New International {Jehovah GOD was seen many times by the people, so in them cases it couldn’t be the Father, {had to be Jesus who was seen and called Jehovah.


“Moses and Aaron, Nahab and Abihu, and seventy of the Elders went up and saw God of Israel under his feet was something like pavement made of sapphire, clear as the sky it self, but God did not raise his hand against these leaders of Israelites, they saw God, and they ate and drank,” Exodus 24:9-11


“at this point the men turned from there way to Sodom but as for JEHOVAH he was standing still before Abraham….then JEHOVAH went his way when he had finished speaking to Abraham.” Genesis 18:22-33 New World Translation Genesis 18:2 says three men appeared to Abraham, two are identified as angels {Genesis 19:1} ONE IS IDENTIFIED AS JEHOVAH GOD Genesis 18:1,3,13,14,17,20,22,26,27,31,32 and 33

Genesis 19: 27
Now Abraham got up early in the morning and went to the place where he had stood before Jehovah

[_rlpmjp]

...
Joseph spoke of three heavens but that was symbolic. There is no such thing as heaven or hell. These three heavens point to three layers of reality. The third layer or estate is the physical world and us living in the flesh.
...
The Christ makes a solar system using natural laws and machines made to fashion planets and suns. The planets are terraformed over time. One is made to support human life in the third estate. The planet over time is seeded to take care of itself. As each human is born it is attached mentally to a being in the second estate.
....

How literally or figuratively do these phrases fit into your universe-view (worldview)?
"...that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory."
"Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth."

And they are repeated in other scriptures, so were not just a poetic flourish given in a moment:
"And the redemption of the soul is through him that quickeneth all things, in whose bosom it is decreed that the poor and the meek of the earth shall inherit it.
Therefore, it must needs be sanctified from all unrighteousness, that it may be prepared for the celestial glory;"
"But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace."

[_dberrie2000]

Sure the Book of Mormon and Bible teach only ONE GOD exists and Jesus is GOD

1 Corinthians 8:6---King James Version (KJV)
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

I noticed you have not addressed that as of yet.

A call for Mittens to address the above scripture.

Could you explain for us why the New Testament writers separated out God the Son from the "one God" of the Biblical New Testament?

[_Mittens]

Sure the Book of Mormon and Bible teach only ONE GOD exists and Jesus is GOD

1 Corinthians 8:6---King James Version (KJV)
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

I noticed you have not addressed that as of yet.

A call for Mittens to address the above scripture.

Could you explain for us why the New Testament writers separated out God the Son from the "one God" of the Biblical New Testament?

At Jesus baptism we had Jesus being baptized, the Father in heaven a separate person, definitely separate and distinct personages. And did Jesus pray to himself ? Obviously not

first used by Theophilus (A.D. 168 A.D. - 183 A.D.), or from the Lat. trinitas, first used by Tertullian (A.D. 220 A.D.), to express this doctrine. The propositions involved in the doctrine are these: 1. That God is one, and that there is but one God (Deut 6:4; 1 Kings 8:60; Isa 44:6; Mark 12:29,32; John 10:30). 2. That the Father is a distinct divine Person (hypostasis, subsistentia, persona, suppositum intellectuale), distinct from the Son and the Holy Spirit. 3. That Jesus Christ was truly God, and yet was a Person distinct from the Father and the Holy Spirit. 4. That the Holy Spirit is also a distinct divine Person.

(from Easton's Bible Dictionary, PC Study Bible formatted electronic database Copyright © 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)

[_Mittens]

http://i.imgur.com/HuYr2BW.jpg

Mormon confusion