Did Joseph Smith Jr. ever lie?

[Guest]

Deleted.

[Guest]

Do you know how to google?

http://wivesofjosephsmith.org/2021-Emil ... tridge.htm


Here is another one. Joseph Smith claimed the Book of Abraham papyrus was written by Abraham's own hand. It wasn't being dated to 200 be - 100 ce. Hence Joseph Smith lied.

[_searcher]

Do you know how to google?

http://wivesofjosephsmith.org/2021-Emil ... tridge.htm

Yes I know how to google, and the sarcasm is unnecessary.

Thanks for the link.

[Guest]

How's this.
Joseph Smith claims to have seen god. I asked god if he ever visited Joseph Smith. God said no. Hence Joseph Smith lied.

I was thinking of something more like this.

Sarah Ann Whitney’s sealing to Joseph Smith was also singular in that a revelation, dated July 27, 1842, specifically outlined the words Sarah’s father, Bishop Newell K. Whitney, was to use in performing the ceremony:

"Verily thus saith the Lord unto my se[r]vant N. K. Whitney the thing that my se[r]vant Joseph Smith has made known unto you and your Famely [Family] and which you have agreed upon is right in mine eyes and shall be crowned upon your heads with honor and immortality and eternal life to all your house both old & young because of the lineage of my Preast [Pirest] Hood saith the Lord it shall be upon you and upon your children after you from generation to generation By virtue of the Holy promise which I now make unto you saith the Lord.

these are the words which you shall pronounce upon my se[r]vant Joseph [Smith] and your Daughter S. A. [Sarah Ann] Whitney. They shall take each other by the hand and you shall say:

you both mutu[al]ly agree calling them by name to be each others companion so long as you both shall live presser[v]ing yourselv[es] for each other and from all others and also through [o]ut all eternity reserving only those rights which have been given to my servant Joseph [Smith] by revelation and commandment and by legal Authority in times passed [past].

“If you both agree to covenant and do this, then I give you S. A. [Sarah Ann] Whitney my Daughter to Joseph Smith to be his wife to observe all the rights betwe[e]n you both that belong to that condition. I do it in my own name and in the name of my wife your mother and in the name of my Holy Progenitors by the right of birth which is of Priest Hood vested in me by revelation and commandment and promise of the living God obtained by the Holy Melchizedek Gethrow [Jethro] and other of the Holy Fathers commanding in the name of the Lord all those powers to concentrate in you and through to your po[s]terity for ever all these things I do in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ that through this order he may be glorified [glorified] and [that] through the power of anointing Davied [David] may reign King over Iseral [Israel] which shall hereafter be revealed let immortality and eternal life henc[e]forth be sealed upon your heads forever and ever. 6
This revelation is distinctive for several reasons. It begins referring to a “thing” Joseph had taught the Whitneys, undoubtedly, the principles of eternal and plural marriage. The revelation assures Newell this “thing” which had been “agreed upon,” was “right,” presumably authorizing the plural marriage between the Prophet and Sarah Ann. The wording specifies that the marriage is “as long as you both shall live” and “also throughout all eternity” or for time and eternity. It contains references to “all the rights between you both that belong to that condition … [and] all those powers to concentrate in your and through to your posterity forever” suggesting that children might spring from the union. No evidence of sexuality has been found, but the wording seems to authorize them to “multiply and replenish the earth” (see D&C 132:63).

6. Revelation for Newell K. Whitney, July 27, 1842. Original manuscript in CHL; quoted in Michael Marquardt, The Joseph Smith Revelations: Text and Commentary (Salt Lake City: Signature Books, 1999), 315–16; see also Revelations in Addition to Those Found in the LDS Edition of the D&C on New Mormon Studies: A Comprehensive Resource Library, CD-ROM (Salt Lake City: Smith Research Associates, 1998).

http://josephsmithspolygamy.org/plural- ... -id_6-5664

Now this does concern a plural marriage, but (if genuine) the wording also supplies some evidence that Joseph's concept of plural marriage (at least in this particular case) implied marital relations here on earth, and that would mean that Joseph lied when he said he only knew of one wife.

That's the kind of evidence I've been looking for.

But I can't find this "revelation" on "The Joseph Smith Papers" website, so now I'm wondering if it's genuine.

Can this really be traced back to Joseph, or is it something the Snufferites might call a Brighamite forgery?

Is there any evidence it's genuine?

P.S. What does "Original manuscript in CHL" mean, and is "The Joseph Smith Revelations: Text and Commentary (Salt Lake City: Signature Books, 1999)" a reliable source?

[_SteelHead]

So you are looking for evidence that Joseph Smith had sex with his polygamous wives?

Google Joseph Smith meat commerce.

[_I have a question]

So...you're looking for evidence Joseph lied, other than the times Joseph was shown to have lied...got it.

[_searcher]

So...you're looking for evidence Joseph lied, other than the times Joseph was shown to have lied...got it.

No, as I said, I was looking for evidence like this.

Sarah Ann Whitney’s sealing to Joseph Smith was also singular in that a revelation, dated July 27, 1842, specifically outlined the words Sarah’s father, Bishop Newell K. Whitney, was to use in performing the ceremony:

"Verily thus saith the Lord unto my se[r]vant N. K. Whitney the thing that my se[r]vant Joseph Smith has made known unto you and your Famely [Family] and which you have agreed upon is right in mine eyes and shall be crowned upon your heads with honor and immortality and eternal life to all your house both old & young because of the lineage of my Preast [Pirest] Hood saith the Lord it shall be upon you and upon your children after you from generation to generation By virtue of the Holy promise which I now make unto you saith the Lord.

these are the words which you shall pronounce upon my se[r]vant Joseph [Smith] and your Daughter S. A. [Sarah Ann] Whitney. They shall take each other by the hand and you shall say:

you both mutu[al]ly agree calling them by name to be each others companion so long as you both shall live presser[v]ing yourselv[es] for each other and from all others and also through [o]ut all eternity reserving only those rights which have been given to my servant Joseph [Smith] by revelation and commandment and by legal Authority in times passed [past].

“If you both agree to covenant and do this, then I give you S. A. [Sarah Ann] Whitney my Daughter to Joseph Smith to be his wife to observe all the rights betwe[e]n you both that belong to that condition. I do it in my own name and in the name of my wife your mother and in the name of my Holy Progenitors by the right of birth which is of Priest Hood vested in me by revelation and commandment and promise of the living God obtained by the Holy Melchizedek Gethrow [Jethro] and other of the Holy Fathers commanding in the name of the Lord all those powers to concentrate in you and through to your po[s]terity for ever all these things I do in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ that through this order he may be glorified [glorified] and [that] through the power of anointing Davied [David] may reign King over Iseral [Israel] which shall hereafter be revealed let immortality and eternal life henc[e]forth be sealed upon your heads forever and ever. 6
This revelation is distinctive for several reasons. It begins referring to a “thing” Joseph had taught the Whitneys, undoubtedly, the principles of eternal and plural marriage. The revelation assures Newell this “thing” which had been “agreed upon,” was “right,” presumably authorizing the plural marriage between the Prophet and Sarah Ann. The wording specifies that the marriage is “as long as you both shall live” and “also throughout all eternity” or for time and eternity. It contains references to “all the rights between you both that belong to that condition … [and] all those powers to concentrate in your and through to your posterity forever” suggesting that children might spring from the union. No evidence of sexuality has been found, but the wording seems to authorize them to “multiply and replenish the earth” (see D&C 132:63).

6. Revelation for Newell K. Whitney, July 27, 1842. Original manuscript in CHL; quoted in Michael Marquardt, The Joseph Smith Revelations: Text and Commentary (Salt Lake City: Signature Books, 1999), 315–16; see also Revelations in Addition to Those Found in the LDS Edition of the D&C on New Mormon Studies: A Comprehensive Resource Library, CD-ROM (Salt Lake City: Smith Research Associates, 1998).

http://josephsmithspolygamy.org/plural- ... -id_6-5664

Now this does concern a plural marriage, but (if genuine) the wording also supplies some evidence that Joseph's concept of plural marriage (at least in this particular case) implied marital relations here on earth, and that would mean that Joseph lied when he said he only knew of one wife.

That's the kind of evidence I've been looking for.

But I can't find this "revelation" on "The Joseph Smith Papers" website, so now I'm wondering if it's genuine.

Can this really be traced back to Joseph, or is it something the Snufferites might call a Brighamite forgery?

Is there any evidence it's genuine?

P.S. What does "Original manuscript in CHL" mean, and is "The Joseph Smith Revelations: Text and Commentary (Salt Lake City: Signature Books, 1999)" a reliable source?

[_Fence Sitter]

That he had to marry the Partridge sisters twice is proof he lied to Emma.

I'm new here, and I'm not familiar with the Partridge sisters, or any evidence that he was married (or sealed) to them twice.

What evidence is there?

Read the William Clayton journals. Or at least do a Google search that cross references the Partridge Sisters & William Clayton journals.

[_Themis]

But I can't find this "revelation" on "The Joseph Smith Papers" website, so now I'm wondering if it's genuine.

What makes you think a church run site will have all the information, or even accurate information? Particularly information that makes Joseph look bad.

It can take some time and research skills to get the most accurate information.

[_Themis]

Can it be demonstrated, from his own writings or public statements, that he lied, contradicted himself, or was less than truthful?

His statements on the first vision change over time with his changing view on the Godhead. He tired to hide his treasure seeking or glass looking. Treasure seeking by glass looking was a practice of manipulating and deceiving people. He pretended to have gold plates about a story shown to be fiction. He made other claims about being able to translate Egyptian and now we know he never did.