Is Satan a Mormon god?

[_SPG]

It is more difficult to make morals on a global scale. The differences in cultures makes it almost impossible to agree. But there are some morals that do have Global recognition. Such as it is wrong to murder. It is difficult even to agree on some things such as rape because some cultures are less likely to frown upon it.

It is very difficult to enforce morals through legislation. It is much easier and a matter of choice if churches do it.

[_Maksutov]

It is more difficult to make morals on a global scale. The differences in cultures makes it almost impossible to agree. But there are some morals that do have Global recognition. Such as it is wrong to murder. It is difficult even to agree on some things such as rape because some cultures are less likely to frown upon it.

It is very difficult to enforce morals through legislation. It is much easier and a matter of choice if churches do it.

I read an English speaking website on the life of Muslims in India. These are groups that have lived side by side for over a thousand years. They share borders yet aim nuclear weapons at each other. The news is frequently over ridiculous hate crimes like dead pigs thrown on the steps of mosques and dead cows on the steps of Hindu temples. The Hindus struggle to rise above age old ignorance due to the caste system and repressive religion and the Muslims are deeply influenced by radical Islamists that might as well be living in the Dark Ages. Islam and Hinduism never underwent a Reformation and an Enlightenment. They have not evolved. That has made them dangerous. That is why I don't look to religions for standards of morality. Nor would I look to governments, who often just reference the religions or labor under their own cults of personality like the USSR, PRC and North Korea.

[_Amore]

Morality depends on wisdom - knowledge applied well. There's no one single answer for everything. This is why the accused is considered innocent until proven guilty (which depends on who has the best lawyer).

For my need for a sense of justice, I want to believe in some type of karma. Eventually, things will catch up with us all and in some way, we'll be given what we dealt - good or bad.

I agree that religion often tends to warp morality - it's full of polarized/bi-polar thinking - us vs them etc. Ideally, more would move past it to see good and avoid bad in religion with healthy respect to different faiths (stage 5: http://www.psychologycharts.com/james-f ... faith.html).

[_SPG]

Morality depends on wisdom - knowledge applied well. There's no one single answer for everything. This is why the accused is considered innocent until proven guilty (which depends on who has the best lawyer).

For my need for a sense of justice, I want to believe in some type of karma. Eventually, things will catch up with us all and in some way, we'll be given what we dealt - good or bad.

I agree that religion often tends to warp morality - it's full of polarized/bi-polar thinking - us vs them etc. Ideally, more would move past it to see good and avoid bad in religion with healthy respect to different faiths (stage 5: http://www.psychologycharts.com/james-f ... faith.html).

I suggest that we are like the Gods in our mind. Alone and in our own Universe we are all powerful. When we come to this world that I like to call the agreed-upon world we must work with others. We must first determine what is valuable and then make a plan to protect it.

Morals are the agreed-upon plan to protect what is valuable. What is valuable varies from culture to culture. But what is Common from culture to culture is that some things are given sacred meaning that they have special Divine Purpose and value.

Sometimes what is most valuable isn't a physical thing but rather a point of Consciousness that can be agreed upon. Such as the Sabbath day. It doesn't have the same value as a life might have but it creates a point of reference that brings the group together.

Such spiritual reference points are critical for a culture. So the idea that the cow is sacred is just using the symbol to fill a spot. Just like the idea pig meat is taboo In some cultures or that circumcision is a mark of righteous identity.

Morals are absolutely necessary for us to survive in this agreed-upon world. The need for morals and the instinct to have them is perhaps natural. But the objects and values that the morals are based upon will always vary.

[_SuperDell]

Who is identified as The God of This World in the Temple?

Satan, but of course it is stated not in ideal, but in the actual behavior of all people, to some extent. Paul Tillech defined god as one's "ultimate concern." Satan represents a selfish desire to make others pay for our own problems. This happens all of the time.

Even in the church, people will hurt others in order to preserve their "good standing" in the church. They worship the church over God. They love a false god (church) over loving their own family - breaking the 2 greatest commandments. In this way, the church is evil, but it's also good - encouraging people to serve each other, etc. It's not all-or-nothing. GOoD and Evil both rule this world. As Kobe Bryant said, we just "chase perfection."

And just what is the 'biblical God'? An insecure being who will force "every knee will bow and every tongue confess". Who but an insecure fool with delusions of grandeur thinks like this?
Don't believe in me? I'll FORCE you to do it!

[_Amore]

SuperDell,
It's true that unfortunately out of the countless qualities attributed to God, many people focus on the worst... the imagined Tyrannical Grandpa in the sky of the Old Testament. Some biblical words, especially in the New Testament and some in the Old Testament, are the opposite: "I love you no matter what...God is no respector of persons...God is light, truth & love..."

Ironically, I read by LDS authors that it's estimated that up to 80% of mental illnesses are rooted in dysfunctional interpretations of Jusaic & Christian doctrine. Focusing on a god that's mean, in my opinion, is basically like seeing oneself, others and this world in negative terms. No wonder many reject God because they jump to the conclusion that God must be so mean & they want nothing to do with it. Then, their faith, not only in God - but also in self and others begins to die because essentially faith in God is faith in the GOoD in self and others. This comes from my experience.

[_SPG]

I think, one of the short coming of the LDS God is that we view him much as a king, politician, or father. This has other benefits, it makes God more human. But God is embedded in the very laws of the universe. Things simply couldn't be another way, within this context. The laws created us, God created us.

The idea that Satan is God of this world comes from Gnostic Text, or Nag Hammadi Library.

I am going to mix some other stuff in with this idea, because I can.

But in the Story, The Mother God wanted a child, but her consort was off doing other things. Her desire was so great that she conceived a child without her consort. He was unbalanced, and she was ashamed. She hid him in the depths of the foundation of existence. But he began to glow, and to grow.

In his context, he was alone. And so he said, "there are no other Gods before me." As he grew, he somehow drew upon the powers of the Mother, not even knowing of her existence. And she knew she must do something. So she moved in his dreams and when he saw her, he wanted to have her, to create her. And so, he created man and woman. Or rather, he tried. But, they were not what he had seen and they were not beautiful. And then entered the game, stage left, "The Savior." He whispered to the God, "breathe life into them and they will be as you desire." And so, God did. And when He did, he was immediately afraid, for he and his angels could see that Man was like unto the gods and they were sore afraid.

But God saw in Adam a beauty that he had sought, The Pistis Sophia, the power of the mother. And he wanted it back and God cause Adam to sleep and he tried to take the Pistis Sophia, but it fled Adam and entered Eve, giving birth to the legend that Eve was made from Adam's rib.

But before God could take back that which he had given, Adam and Eve rebelled, (in the story, at the behest of the serpent, symbol of Divine Feminine Wisdom, a.k.a. The Savior.) Yup, in the story left by Jesus himself, Jesus claimed that it he was the serpent in the garden that temped Adam and Eve. That he did it at the Mother's bidding, that he was here to save her power from creating injustices. Thus, the need for a Savior.

God was angry with the serpent, and he was angry with Adam and Eve. He cursed them both, or all three. Feminine power was to struggle and be trampled under the feet of men.

When Jesus came again, in the form of . . . . . well, Jesus, it was to turn a new page in the development of mankind. Kingdoms fell and power changed. Or did it? That is yet to be seen.

In the rumors. . . . that some people worship the Devil, there might some truth in. I can see why they would. Because, in the confusion of who is who, when digging through the old texts, Christ was the Serpent that caused Adam and Eve to rebel. The rebellion, as documented in half a dozen other faith systems, was about saving man from the creator.

Lucifer, Son of the Morning, supposedly fell from his high place because he saw the sad situation of mankind. Thus, he became the fallen angel, but in the process, opposed the creator himself. In the original Jesus story, he was that same fallen angel come to rescue the Mother's power for oppression.

If you take a direct look at the Bible, it pretty much says as I laid out here. God was pissed at Adam and Eve, they left, they worshiped in fear and Jesus came to save them from God's wrath. There are many twisting and turning of the idea, but basically, that is what it says. If you read some of lost and supporting books of the Bible, they are even more clear about it. And if you read the Nag Hammadi Library, it states it very plainly.

My wife and I actually became a little confused about what we were doing. She was determined to dislike the creator, yet, I saw a higher creator, something in the power of creation that I loved. I love the power of creation, the Mother's Power. But, as you might suspect from the story and human history, the creator has not been kind to women.

One of the most controversial things Jesus did was Mary Magdalena. . . ., er, not that he did her per-say, but that they were friends. Up to that time and through the Dark Ages and on, women were not even considered to have souls. Just like some of us might debate whether flies, or worms might have souls, men used to think about women. It was pretty bad. But Jesus, according to Nag Hammadi, made Mary one his disciples. It's rumored that the Gospel of Matthew is actually her's. But she actually has her own gospel in Nag Hammadi, as is the gospel of Thomas, (a good read.)

But, I think that Satan or God, at this point, must be defined by their spirit. It's sort of like the American politics. Should you go Red or Blue? I say you cannot walk on a side anymore, but rather, walk with the spirit.

[_Amore]

Hi SPG,
I like how you explain spiritual concepts via myths and parables. They say that's the only way to convey such deep truths. I imagine that spirits are without form or shape and based on consciousness - but that's so difficult to really relate to. It's much easier to say, this guy or girl represents this spiritual energy - and relate better to it.

The way women have been treated is more a result of men than God, don't you think? Yes, God (as Creator) created women as weaker physically, but we're stronger in some ways too. I get this sense that often men feel intimidated by women (because women can do mental gymnastics they can't and can manipulate them emotionally). We have babies - pretty close to being a creator. Obviously, a man and a woman are both needed - like yin/yang. We are each a product of the yin/yang - so as you suggested - maybe it's not quite as divided it may seem.

[_Amore]

I suggest that we are like the Gods in our mind. Alone and in our own Universe we are all powerful. When we come to this world that I like to call the agreed-upon world we must work with others. We must first determine what is valuable and then make a plan to protect it.

Morals are the agreed-upon plan to protect what is valuable. What is valuable varies from culture to culture. But what is Common from culture to culture is that some things are given sacred meaning that they have special Divine Purpose and value.

Sometimes what is most valuable isn't a physical thing but rather a point of Consciousness that can be agreed upon. Such as the Sabbath day. It doesn't have the same value as a life might have but it creates a point of reference that brings the group together.

Such spiritual reference points are critical for a culture. So the idea that the cow is sacred is just using the symbol to fill a spot. Just like the idea pig meat is taboo In some cultures or that circumcision is a mark of righteous identity.

Morals are absolutely necessary for us to survive in this agreed-upon world. The need for morals and the instinct to have them is perhaps natural. But the objects and values that the morals are based upon will always vary.

It's true that even one's individual morals are greatly influenced by one's culture or group. There has to be getting-along - a civilized society for all to be able to progress and be well.

Do you think there are degrees of morality? Jesus suggested such - and probably Buddha and others too.
IE: 1) "Do unto yourself what you need to survive."
2) "Do unto others as you'd have them do unto you."
3) "Do unto others as is respectful to them as individuals."
4) "Do unto yourself and others as most ideal for all."

[_SPG]

Do you think there are degrees of morality? Jesus suggested such - and probably Buddha and others too.
IE: 1) "Do unto yourself what you need to survive."
2) "Do unto others as you'd have them do unto you."
3) "Do unto others as is respectful to them as individuals."
4) "Do unto yourself and others as most ideal for all."

These basic principles are the basis of agreement. I mean, who is going to agree to, "Let me hit you really hard, but you cannot hit me back."??

Christ, the Office of Creation, is more or less this golden rule. It is what allows cooperation and intermingling of unlike kinds. If at any point the rule said, "Let me dominate you and you will submit to my every whim" then there would be disagreement, dysfunction. Even though we don't see the romance of relational operations of smaller life forms, or even of chemical or electrical process, it does happen. I can almost imagine some skin cell, being born, going through puberty, finding love within its self, splitting, working together, and dying. All within a couple of hours, but they go through relating process.

I haven't been able to word the spirit in some clever phrase, but the Golden Rule is basically the Spirit of Christ, the spirit that allows things to work and be created. When this rule is broken, karma basically kicks up in the consciousness demanding atonement or breakdown and destruction. Of course, forgiveness, kindness, humility, all play a part in the balance. But I have heard this put a different way, "do unto others, for it WILL be done unto you."