Christ visit and the Mik Maq Nephites

[_SteelHead]

The dna connection is 20k years old. It weakens your case, it does not help it.

Now produce an artifact that is not viewed as a hoax, but that has actual credibility. The artifacts and cultural ties you have presented + $2.00 will get you a burger at McDonald's.

Which is why you keep turning to 200 year old evidence. The modern evidence rejects your assertions and is demonstrably more reliable.

Meet Jenkins's challenge. Produce 1 verified and accepted piece of western hemisphere evidence that supports the Book of Mormon narrative. I am sure he would love to see it. Hamblin couldn't do it, but I am "sure" you can.

[_bomgeography]

http://bookofmormonevidence.blogspot.co ... ymbol.html

http://bookofmormonevidence.blogspot.co ... e-x2a.html

See Greek style cross

http://bookofmormonevidence.blogspot.co ... mites.html

[_Maksutov]

Here are the quotes if you can show that I misconstrued the meaning or took out of context any of the observations made by the persons listed I will gladly change my point of view on any of them

(Iroquois Legend)
“The visitor appeared very old man; he appeared among the people for a while; he taught them many things; how to respect their deceased friends, and to love their relations and he informed the people that the whites beyond the great water had killed their Maker, but he rose again.”
(Cusick 1838 pg. 31)
(Gaspesian/Micmac legend of a beautiful person who in a time of turmoil visited them. He taught them and performed miracles. The sleep mentioned in the quote would make sense during the three days of darkness mentioned in 3 Nephi. The cross mentioned in the quote is the Greek style cross - not to be confused with the evangelical cross. The Greek cross is a sacred symbol found in prehistoric Indian civilizations.)
“They claim that, at a time when their country was afflicted with a very dangerous and deadly malady which had reduced them to an extreme destitution in every respect and had already sent many of them to their graves, certain old men of those whom they considered the best, the wisest, and the most influential, fell asleep, all overwhelmed with weariness and despair at seeing a desolation so general and the impending ruin of the entire Gaspesian nation ... It was, say they, in this sleep filled with bitterness that a man, beautiful as could be, appeared to them with a Cross in his hand. He told them to take heart, to go back to their homes, to make Crosses like that which were shown them, and to present these to the heads of families with the assurance that if they would receive the Crosses with respect they would find these without question the remedy for all their ills. And so it turned out in fact, for the sickness ended, and all the afflicted who used the Cross with respect were restored miraculously to health. In this they were more happy.”
(Clercq 1680 pg. 172)
(Foretelling Christ’s visit to America there were incredible natural disaster. The Dakota Indians tell of an event passed down that matches the destruction explained in the Book of Mormon. The Dakota Indians explain that during a great and terrible tempest, with forked lightning and quaking of the earth an enemy Iowa village was ploughed to the earth to become a deep ravine where the village once stood. The Book of Mormon states in 3 Nephi Chapter 8 there were “terrible tempest”, “terrible thunder”, “exceedingly sharp lightnings”, ”exceedingly great quaking of the whole earth”, ”many smooth places became rough”, “And many great and notable cities were sunk”.)
“The thunder, which the Dakotas believe to be a winged monster, and which in character seems to answer very well to the Mars of the ancient heathen, bore down upon the Iowa village in a most terrible and god-like manner. Tempests howled, the forked lightnings flashed, and the thunders uttered their voices; the earth trembled; a thunderbolt was hurled at the devoted village, which ploughed the earth, and formed that deep ravine.” (Miner 1911 pg. 29)
(Father Clercq believed that the Gaspesian/Micmac Indians were taught the belief of the cross and the Christian gospel by previous missionaries, the Gaspesian Indians said differently)
“One day to make these pagans admit that the missionaries who had preceded me had taught them the manner in which they ought to worship the Cross, the leading person said to me, “Well, now, thou art a Patriarch. Thou wishest that we believe everything that thou tellest us, but thou art not willing to believe that which we tell thee. Thou art not yet forty years old and for only two hast thou dwelt with the Indians; and yet thou pretendest to know our maxims, our traditions, and our customs better than our ancestors who have taught them to us. Dost thou not still see every day the old man Quioudo, who is more than a hundred and twenty years old: He saw the first ship which landed in our country. He has repeated to thee often that the Indians of Mizamichis have not received from strangers the use of the Cross, and that his own knowledge of it has been derived through tradition from his fathers, who lived for at least as long a time as he.”
(Clercq 1680 pg. 191)




Concerning Hattera Indians of North Carolina)
“These (Hattera Indians) tell us, that several of their Ancestors were white People, and could talk in a Book, as we do; the Truth of which is confirmed by gray eyes being found frequently amongst these Indians, and no others”
(John Lawson 1709 pg. 62)
(About Gaspesian/Micmac Indians)

“They hold, further, that it could well have been a fact that these individuals were instructed in the sacred mysteries of our holy Religion, and that they had even a knowledge and the use of letters, since, in the establishment of colonies, it is customary to send there men who are alike learned and pious, in order that they may teach to the peoples, along with purely human knowledge, the most solid maxims of Christian wisdom and piety. Nobody, however, having followed them in these glorious employments, the knowledge which they had of the true God, of letters, and of their origin, was thus gradually lost and effaced from the minds of their unfortunate posterity by the lapse of time.”
(Clercq 1680 pg. 86)
(Gaspesian/Micmac Indians)
“These people had received in times past a knowledge of the Gospel and of Christianity, which they have finally lost through the negligence and the licentiousness of their ancestors.”
(Clercq 1680 pg. 86)
(In reference to the North American Indians)
“It is said among their principal or beloved men, that they have it handed down from their ancestors, that the book which the white people have was once theirs. That while they say that their forefathers were possessed of an extraordinary divine spirit, by which they foretold future events, and controlled the common course of nature, and this they transmitted to their offspring, on condition of their obeying the sacred laws. That they did by these means bring down showers of plenty on the beloved people. But that this power, for a long time past, had entirely ceased.”
(Boudinet 1816 pg. 114)
“Colonel M. inquired why the Indians had not learned these arts of the white people. He replied indefinitely, relating that the Great Spirit had once given the Indians a book, which taught them all these arts, but that they had lost it, and had never since regained the knowledge of them.”
(M.H. Frost 1819; On the aborigines of the Western Countries) According to an old Cherokee quoted by Buttrick:
“God gave the red man a book and a paper and told him to write, but he merely made marks on the paper, and as he could not read or write, the Lord gave him a bow and arrows, and gave the book to the white man.” Boudinot, in “A Star in the West,”‘ quoted by the same author, says: “They have it handed down from their ancestors, that the book which the white people have was once theirs; that while they had it they prospered exceedingly; but that the white people bought it of them and learned many things from it, while the Indians lost credit, offended the Great Spirit, and suffered exceedingly from the neighboring nations; that the Great Spirit took pity on them and directed them to this country,”
(Mooney 1902 pg. 483)
According to Morgan, the Muscogee proper, and perhaps also their incorporated tribes, have 22 clans. Of these the Wind appears to be the leading one, possessing privileges accorded to no other clan, including the hereditary guardianship of the ancient metal tablets which constitute the palladium of the tribe.” (Palladium in the 19th and 18th century means for safety)
(Mooney 1902 pg. 499)

Gaspesian/Micmac belief of how they arrived on the North American continent
The Gaspesian/Micmac have two theories of how they arrived. The first is by sailing from another country, and the other belief fits the Genesis account and flood.
“Others hold that this new world has been peopled by certain individuals who, having embarked upon the sea for the purpose of establishing a colony in foreign parts, were surprised by storm and tempest, which threw them upon the coasts of North America. Here they were unfortunately shipwrecked, and, with their ships, they lost everything which they must have had with them of property, and of the things which they valued most in the world. Affairs were such that this shipwreck having left them wholly without hope of ever returning into their own country”
(Clercq 1680, pg. 85)
Iroquois legend of a foreign people who sailed to the continent then were destroyed. Cusick’s book I believe is about the Nephite and Lamanite Interactions and fighting except from the Lamanite perspective told in Iroquois Legend.
“After a long time a number of foreign people sailed from a port unknown; but unfortunately before reached their destination the winds drove them contrary ; at length their ship wrecked somewhere on the southern part of the Great Island, and many of the crews perished ; a few active persons were saved ....They immediately selected a place for residence and built a small fortification in order to provide against the attacks of furious beasts....After many years the foreign people became numerous, and extended their settlements ; but afterwards they were destroyed”
(Cusick 1838, pg. 16)
Natchez Indians of Mississippi concerning a race of Indian that preceded them
“They had come on floating villages from the side where the sun rises.” (Swanton 1909, pg. 184)
“There is a rock, called the Dighton rock, on Taunton River, near Dighton, in Massachusetts. It is a large rock in the margin of the sea, and upon it are inscriptions in strange characters, partly alphabetical and partly hieroglyphic... In another scene, there is a vessel, with its masts, flags, and long rudder, as in the oriental vessels at this day...The subject generally seems intended to commemorate the arrival of a people there from the ocean and the east, and who, having had intercourse with that natives)
(Haywood

Captain Brant Thayendanegea was a well-known Iroquois and Mohawk leader and Chief who sided with the British during the Revolutionary war. He was born of Iroquois parents who converted to Christianity. They gave him a Christian name Joseph Brant. The quote is from his biography:
“I was curious to learn in the course of my conversations with Captain Brant (Thayendanegea Mohawk/Iroquois Chief), what information he could give me respecting the tumuli (mounds) which are found on and near the margin of the rivers and lakes, from the St. Lawrence to the Mississippi. He stated, in reply, that the subject had long been agitated, but yet remained in some obscurity. A tradition, he said, prevailed among the different nations of Indians through-out that whole extensive range of country, and had been handed down time immemorial, that in an age long gone by, there came white men from a foreign country, and by consent of the Indians established trading-houses and settlements where these tumuli (mounds) are found. A friendly intercourse was continued for several years; many of the white men brought their wives, and had children born to them; and additions to their numbers were made yearly from their own country. These circumstances at length gave rise to jealousies among the Indians, and fears began to be entertained in regard to the increasing numbers, wealth, and ulterior views of the new comers; apprehending that becoming strong, they might one day seize upon the country as their own. A secret council, composed of the chiefs of all the different nations from the St. Lawrence to the Mississippi, was therefore convoked; the result of which, after long deliberation, was a resolution that on a certain night designated for that purpose, all their white neighbors, men, women and children, should be exterminated.“
(Stone 1838 pg. 484)
“Here the Indians tell us there was a war in early times, against an Indian town, traces of which are yet visible, corn pits, etc. This was inhabited by a distinct nation, neither Iroquois nor Delawares, who spoke a peculiar language, and were called Tehotitachse, against them the Five Nations warred and routed them out; the Cayugas for a time held a number captive, but the nation and the language are now exterminated and extinct.”
(Murray 1908 pg. 46)

Natchez Indians of Mississippi, in reference to an ancient race of Indian who preceded them and eventually were defeated:
“I did not fail to ask him who these warriors of fire were. “They were,” said he, “bearded men, white but swarthy... They had come on floating villages from the side where the sun rises. They conquered the ancients of the country, of whom they killed as many as there are spears of grass in the Prairies, and in the beginning they were good friends of our brothers, but ultimately they made them submit as well as the ancients of the country, as our Suns (leaders) had foreseen and had foretold to them.””
(Swanton 1909 pg. 184)
“There is a dim but persistent tradition of a strange white race preceding the Cherokee, some of the stories even going so far as to locate their former settlements and to identify them as the authors of the ancient works found in the country. The earliest reference appears to be that of Barton in 1797, on the statement of a gentleman whom he quotes as a valuable authority upon the southern tribes. “The Cherokee tell us, that when they first arrived in the country which they inhabit, they found it possessed by certain ‘moon-eyed people,’ who could not see in the day-time. These wretches they expelled.” He seems to consider them an albino race.* Haywood, twenty-six years later, says that the invading Cherokee found “white people” near the head of the Little Tennessee, with forts extending thence down the Tennessee as far as Chickamauga creek. He gives the location of three of these forts. The Cherokee made war against them and drove them to the mouth of Big Chickamauga creek, where they entered into a treaty and agreed to remove if permitted to depart in peace. Permission being granted, they abandoned the country. Elsewhere he speaks of this extirpated white race as having extended into Kentucky and probably also into western Tennessee, according to the concurrent traditions of different tribes.” (Mooney 1902 pg. 22)
“Did not these skeletons belong to persons of the same race with those white people, who were extirpated in part, and in part driven from Kentucky, and probably also from West Tennessee, as Indian tradition reports?”
(Haywood 1823 pg. 166)
“An old Indian, in conversation with Colonel James F. Moore, of Kentucky, informed him that the western country, and particularly Kentucky, had once been inhabited by white people, but that they were exterminated by the Indians. That the last battle was fought at the falls of Ohio, and that the Indians succeeded in driving the Aborigines into a small island below the rapids, where the whole of them were cut to pieces.”
(M.H. Frost 1819; On the aborigines of the Western Countries)
“Mr. Thomas Bodley was informed by Indians of different tribes northwest of the Ohio, that they had understood from their old men, and that it had been a tradition among their several nations, that Kentucky had been settled by whites, and that they had been exterminated by war. They were of opinion that the old fortifications, now to be seen in Kentucky and Ohio, were the productions of those white inhabitants. Wappockanitta, a Shawnee chief, near a hundred and twenty years old, living on the Auglaze River, confirmed

“They call themselves Aquanuskion (Algonquin), or ye Covenant People.” (Louise Welles Murray 1908)
(Gaspesian/Micmac Indians)
“Not an Indian would ever dare to appear before the others without having in his hand, on his skin, or on his garments this sacred sign.”
(Clercq 1680 pg. 147)
Mosiah 11:10 – And he also caused that his workmen should work all manner of fine work within the walls of the temple, of fine wood, and of copper, and of brass.
(In reference to the Natchez of Mississippi, who said a race that preceded them built temples with much skill, and also taught them to build temples)
“Their temples were built with much skill and labor. They made very beautiful things with all kinds of materials, such as gold, silver, stones, wood, fabrics, feathers, and many other things in which they made their skill appear.
“A remarkable temple was situated in the town of Talmaco, upon the Savannah River, three miles distant from Cutifatchique, near Silver Bluff. It was more than one hundred feet in length, and fifty feet in width. The walls were high in proportion, and the roof steep and covered with mats of split cane, interwoven so compactly that they resembled the rush carpeting of the Moors.”
(Jones, The American Naturalist, Vol 3 1869)
“In 1934, the Tennessee Valley Authority (TVA), was constructing a dam which would flood a portion of the Clinch River in East Tennessee. Because the area to be flooded included a Hopewell Native American mound, a group of archeologists were called in to excavate the site. The archeologists came upon an amazing discovery when they uncovered the ruins of a large stone and wood structure. So unlike any other find found at a Hopewell site, British Egyptologist, James Rendel Harris from the London Museum, was consulted. At the site, Harris identified the structure as an “Egyptian Temple”. A single newspaper article documents this account.
“In the center of the mound, about three feet from its surface, I uncovered a large sacrificial vase, or altar, forty-three inches in diameter, composed of a mixture of clay and river shells. The rim of the vase was three inches in height. The entire vessel had been molded in a large wicker basket, formed of split canes, and the leaves of the cane, the impressions of which were plainly visible upon the outer surface. The circle of the vase appeared to be almost mathematically correct. The surface of the altar was covered with a layer of ashes, about one inch in thickness, and these ashes had the appearance and composition of having been derived from the burning.”
(Jones, The American Naturalist, Vol 3 1869)
(During ancient times, Hebrews were commanded to maintain an eternal flame at the tabernacle/temple - Exodus 27:20, 21)
“Henri de Tonto, who travelled with de la Salle and wrote an extensive report, thought them most “polished” people he had seen. As with the Illinois and Natchez, they maintained a sacred fire that was never allowed to go out in their major Temple... an elaborate palace with decorated walls ten feet high.”
(A Cultural History of the Atlantic World, 1250-1820, by John K. Thornton)
“The Potta-wat-um-ees moved up Lake Michigan, and by taking with them, or for a time perpetuating the national fire, which according to tradition was sacredly kept alive in their more primitive days, they have obtained the name of “those who make or keep the fire,” which is the literal meaning of their tribal cognomen.”
(Warren Williams, Ojibwa History) (Gaspesian/Micmac Indians)
“In a word, they value the [Greek style] Cross so highly that they order it to be interred with them in their coffins after death, in the belief that this Cross will bear them company in the other world, and that they would not be recognised by their ancestors if they had not with them the symbol and honourable token which distinguishes the Cross-bearers from all the other Indians of New France.”
(Clercq 1680 pg. 151)

Native American and Hebrew beliefs and customs
(About Gaspesian/Micmac Indians)
“They say that when the sun, which they have always recognized and worshiped as their God, created all this great universe, he divided the earth immediately into several parts, wholly separated one from the other by great lakes : that in each part he caused to be born one man and one woman, and they multiplied and lived a very long time : hut that having become wicked along with their children, who killed one another, the sun wept with grief thereat, and the rain fell from the heaven in such great abundance that the waters mounted even to the summit of the rocks, and of the highest and most lofty mountains. This flood, which, say they, was general over all the earth, compelled them to set sail in their bark canoes.”
(Clercq 1680 pg. 85)
(Cherokee belief of a great deluge)
“A long time ago a man had a dog, which began to go down to the river every day and look at the water and howl. At last the man was angry and scolded the dog, which then spoke to him and said: “Very soon there is going to be a great freshet and the water will come so high that everybody will be drowned; but if you will make a raft to get upon when the rain comes you can be saved, but you must first throw me into the water.” The man did not believe it, and the dog said, “If you want a sign that I speak the truth, look at the back of my neck.” He looked and saw that the dog’s neck had the skin worn off so that the bones stuck out. Then he believed the dog, and began to build a raft. Soon the rain came and he took his family, with plenty of provisions, and they all got upon it. It rained for a long time, and the water rose until the mountains were covered and all the people in the world were drowned. Then the rain stopped and the waters went down again, until at last it was safe to come off the raft. Now there was no one alive but the man and his family, but one day they heard a sound of dancing and shouting on the other side of the ridge. "


Gaspesian/Micmac Indians - Hebrew one year betrothal and dowry)
“The one of our Indians who wishes to marry a girl must live an entire year in the wigwam of his mistress’s father, whom he must serve and to whom he must give all the furs of moose and beavers which he kills in hunting. By the same law it is forbidden to the future husband and wife to abandon themselves to their pleasure.”
(Clercq 1680 pg. 238)
(Gaspesian/Micmac Indians - ancient Hebrew belief of a women being unclean during her menstrual period)
“A matter which is yet more surprising is this - they observe still to this day certain ceremonies of which they do not know the origin, giving no other reasons than that their ancestors have always practiced the same thing. The first is this, that the women and girls, when they suffer the inconveniences usual to their sex, are accounted unclean.”
(Clercq 1680 pg. 227)

“I have learned only this from our Indians, that the chiefs of their nation formerly entrusted the bodies of the dead to certain old men, who carried them sacredly to a wigwam built on purpose in the midst of the woods, where they remained for a month or six weeks. They opened the head and the belly of the dead person, and removed therefrom the brain and the entrails.”
(Clercq 1680 pg. 302)

They are either descendants of the lost tribes of Israel, or they have had, in some former era, a close contact and intercourse with the Hebrews, imbibing from them their beliefs and customs and the traditions of their patriarchs.”
(Warren Williams, Ojibwa History)
(Gaspesian/Micmac Indians)
“After the death of one’s brother, it is permissible to marry his wife, in order that she may have children of the same blood if she has not had any by her first husband.”
(Clercq 1680 pg. 228)

Native American idioms and phraseology, as described by early settlers, are consistent with the Old Testament and the Book of Mormon. Below are some examples of Native American idioms consistent with scripture. Examples are from John Heckewelder’s Manners and Customs of The Indian Nations Who Once Inhabited Pennsylvania and the Neighboring States.
Native American saying: “I will place you under my wings!”
Meaning: I will protect you at all hazards! You shall be perfectly safe, nobody shall molest
you!
Scripture: 3 Nephi 10:6 O ye house of Israel whom I have spared, how oft will I gather you as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, if ye will repent and return unto me with full purpose of heart.
(Heckewelder pg. 139)
Native American saying: ”To bury deep in the earth” (an injury done) Meaning: To consign it to oblivion.
Scripture: 2 Nephi 26:5 And they that kill the prophets, and the saints, the depths of the earth shall swallow them up, saith the Lord of Hosts; and mountains shall cover them. (Heckewelder pg. 140)
Native American saying: “You have spoken with your lips only, not from the heart!” Meaning: You endeavor to deceive me; you do not intend to do as you say!
Scripture: 2 Nephi 27:25 Forasmuch as this people draw near unto me with their mouth, and with their lips do honor me, but have removed their hearts far from me, and their fear towards me is taught by the precepts of men. (Heckewelder pg. 139)
Native American saying: “draw the thorns out of your feet and legs, grease your Stiffened joints with oil, and wipe the sweat off your body.”
Meaning: I make you feel comfortable after your fatiguing journey, that you may enjoy yourself while with us.
Hebrew Custom: The washing of feet is a Hebrew custom. It was the first item done when entering a house or tent. The host would provide the water and the guest would wash his own feet. If the host was wealthy, a slave would wash the feet.
Anointing of oil was used by Jews to refresh and invigorate the body. This custom is still done today by Arabians. In the example there are some similarities in the cleaning of feet and legs from thorns and the anointing of oil or grease to refresh the body. (Heckewelder pg. 139)

This is a Gish gallop. Take one of them, your best one, and provide several paragraphs regarding it: its source, its provenance, its interpretation, conflicting opinions on it, physical evidence, etc. Let's take them one by one.

[_Lemmie]

In November, 2015, on MD&D, Brant Gardner was kind enough to make some very specific posts, responding to the information you have posted multiple times, and to which you had re-posted there again, under the name bomgeography; now you're here again, repeating your same lists of bad references and irrelevant, unsubstantiated and/or discredited quotes, with no change and without addressing any of the issues he pointed out. Why? Here are his comments:

I will be honest that I'm surprised that it's confirmed that Hopewell had metallurgy technology,

They had hammered copper. That isn't the same technology that produced the plates, which requires a much higher form of metalworking. Metallurgy is the heating of metals to change the properties of the metals. That isn't what the Hopewell did. So yes to metals, no to the type of metallurgy required in the Book of Mormon.

a matching timeline,

A similar timeline, not necessarily a matching one. As with the Maya, it depends on how you begin the count--and when. There are various disputes about the timeline, and even the separation of the Adena and the Hopewell. Because the Adena essentially became the Hopewell, one suggestion is that they are the same people at different periods. The problem isn't just the Hopewell, however, it is the relationship between the Adena and the Hopewell. The relative geographies don't fit the Book of Mormon descriptions.

Book of Mormon listed animals.

Except contemporary horses, elephants, goats, sheep --and pretty much every animal that is listed as anomalous in the Book of Mormon. The Hopewell don't solve the problem of fauna.

Early settlers found hieroglyphic tablets, ancient iron swords.

This statement requires that we accept evidence that no degreed archaeologist accepts. There are certainly some forged or otherwise questionable early writings, but nothing that hasn't had very serious criticism. I am completely unaware of contemporary iron swords attested in archaeology.

Native American have temple like ceremonies, a Hebrew calender, and Hebrew words in their vocabulary.

This evidence comes from early theorists who were untrained in the cultures they were studying, and often in the comparisons they were making (such as Elias Boudinot).

They reported connections that were not there. Just because some one claimed it, doesn't mean that it was correct. In many ways, believing everything in the early books about Native Americans is of the same quality as believing everything on the Internet. They said it, but that doesn't make it correct. It wasn't, and modern linguistics and archaeology know better.

Native Americans believed they killed off a strange race of Indians that sailed to North America from another country

Another unsubstantiated tale.

they have traditions of keeping metal tablets as records, they have beliefs of a Christ like visit, some tribes said they had white ancestors and a book of scripture,

These legends follows white preachers around. None of them can be substantiated. In the case of Central Mexico, where there is enough data to trace what happened, we can see how and why the tale developed--and that it had nothing to do with Native lore.

second highest concentration of a rare haplo group, the highest concentration of this haplo group in the world is found in Isreal,

A misreading of the DNA science, and requires complete renunciation of the associated dating that is part of the reconstruction.

Native American ties to Hebrews
https://mormonbandwagon.com/dave/tribe-manasseh-4/

I took a look at this one. There are several examples that are clearly dependent upon European styles and are not pre-contact. The Micmac examples forget that LeClerc is the one who adapted the symbols to language. All of this material is purported to be examples of Native American contacts, but none of it is accepted according to standards of modern archaeology, history, or linguistics.

So the basic answer is that you can believe the Hopewell evidence only if you define evidence as something you want to believe that is contradicted by better archaeology and linguistics. Of all of the evidence listed, nothing can survive scrutiny.

http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/663 ... el/?page=7

Bolding added by me, of the parts most pertinent to your current thread title.

Instead of simply re-posting your same lists, every 6 months or so, on every Mormon related board, I agree with Maksutov, cut the Gish Gallop. Pick one and support it.

If it's one Brant or Anijen or RFS or others from MD&D have already refuted however, or one that posters here have already refuted, it would be helpful if you would address those issues first and not just ignore their points.

[_bomgeography]

I think in the near future we will find out how this and new information will hold up to scrutiny it's just a matter of time before LDS academics will drop the meso American model for the North American. When this happens you myself and everyone on this blog will not be involved in the discussions that will happen

[_bomgeography]

I think it's funny you are quoting Brant Gardner a Book of Mormon meso American apologist.

[Guest]

Maskutov Let's start with the post title topic book New Relations of Gaspesia. Try and discredit this book

[_SteelHead]

http://bookofmormonevidence.blogspot.com/2016/09/native-american-jewish-hamsa-symbol.html

http://bookofmormonevidence.blogspot.co ... e-x2a.html

See Greek style cross

http://bookofmormonevidence.blogspot.co ... mites.html

Ask for accepted evidence and get bomgeos personal conjecture. .......

Nope.

[Guest]

I could be wrong but you might be somewhat biased. Greek words used by Cherokee Indians for one.

Second the Greek style cross considered sacred by Hopewell and in the old world.

And the Jewish Hamsa symbol also used by North American Indians who have middle east DNA.

Also there is more artifact evidence that is not finished yet. Mental gymnastics will have to be used to deny the physical cultural and DNA links that will be coming once the LDS academics start looking in to the North American model

[Guest]

Maskutov Let's start with the post title topic book New Relations of Gaspesia. Try and discredit this book

It already was, upthread. There was the discussion of the author's ignorance and contempt toward the indigenous people, among other problems. But of course you don't read the links of works of others. Just like you ran from the objections of Coe and Feder and Jenkins. You refer us to a whole book and not to points within it. Was the original in French? I don't read French, do you? Are there any questions about the translation? What are the opinions of contemporary historians and anthropologists about these accounts and their explanations? Do you know? Do you care?

Try again. It should be easy to find: a civilization the size of Rome in the Eastern United States, with Hebraic language, iron and wheeled technology and extensive infrastructural ruins. That is not what the Moundbuilders were. Redefining things in defiance of the body of knowledge and the understanding of professionals is the strategy of crackpots like Von Daniken and Frank Collin, your Nazi sympathizer authority. You've got nothing, no artifacts, plates, bodies or data, nothing but a determination to insult the people that lived here for thousands of years before the Mormons. You should be ashamed, not only of your ignorance, but also your arrogance.