Noah's Ark questions

[_SPG]

Ah, the problem of God thinking people should guess which beliefs are the right one so he can punish and reward based on random chance. Nice

God does not punish or reward at random. The "Law of God" is actually quite prominent in religious lore. Granted, it's always the psychopath that is interrupting and enforcing it in the movies.

But consider the Golden Rule, something Christ tried to put forth as God's law, which is basically, "do unto others, love thee neighbor, love yourself, love God."

You can look as far as you, and if you find a happy and successful person, they will live some form of what I just mentioned. Or, if they claim to be happy, but are tyrants, their doom is just a matter of time.

But, the Golden Rule helps us development social morals, which lend to cultural success. And punishment. . . . if you break those rules, suffering will ensue. Even the Love God one. Maybe not at first, but God gives a culture backbone that is stronger then government. Without God, once a government fails, the people are lost.

[_SPG]

It is compatible with critical thinking.. It is so called critical thinkers that think faith is believing in spooks.

What do you think critical thinking is, then?

Critical thinking is doing something, observing the results, adjusting your plan.

[_Maksutov]

What do you think critical thinking is, then?

Critical thinking is doing something, observing the results, adjusting your plan.

Okay, that's an application in an ongoing project. What about looking at something like geologic strata?

[_SPG]

Okay, that's an application in an ongoing project. What about looking at something like geologic strata?

I am not sure that I understand.

I would apply my version of faith. For example, when I was young, I would explore the mountains of southern Utah. There was a particular layer that fascinated me, it was smooth clay, that ground into the finest powder. It wasn't like the other.

I would carry bits of it with me.

But my model was, "I wanted to know what it was, why it was different, how it came to be." So I wanted, I hoped, I looked, and I waited.

When the theory of Winslow meteor came, I felt like I had my answers. The meteor kicked up dust and liquefied the earth around it.

I used my method to get my answer. I'm not 100% sure that is what happened, but it fit. I could have gone back years later, got samples and tried to validate it, but I don't have the time or resources, and my desire to know more isn't strong enough.

But I questioned, wanted to know, hoped for an answer, and got one. What else can one do?

[_Themis]

So if God won't prove he is communicating to you, why should we accept any terms? Especially since the terms are communicated to you through other people.

This thread has devolved off topic. I have no more interest in it.

LOL I understand. The problems with Noah's flood story at the global level have mountains of evidence against, and the more scientific minded believers tend to naturally remove the global part but usually wants to keep as much of the story as they can. At least for LDS. Other Christians don't need Noah to be a real person so they can easily see it all as all fiction. Same with Adam. LDS don't have that luxury, because of Joseph's claimed revelations, so members tend to try and make something work that has all these biblical characters as real people. Problem is that Noah's story changes completely into a different story, but is still very implausible and needs lots of magical help. Kinda like the Jaredites sea voyage.

The problems are still many. That's why I brought up DNA. A local flood in which God magically helps Noah survive and get to the middle east is just the start. He also has to be very successful in spreading Old Testament stories to people who would not have the same beliefs. Somehow is very successful in this, but cannot leave any DNA from himself or any animals or plants he may have brought as well. It also brings up the question of whether it is more likely Joseph was making it up, or that Adam to Noah really are Native Americans. Now if you still want Adam to be created in the garden without a native American father and mother, one may naturally ask why. The whole point of the creation story is to explain how the world and mankind came about. You lose a big part of that story if humans have already been running around for 10's of thousands of years. This is just a few of the major problems I can bring up. This is why going to things like a local flood create many new problems trying to solve old problems.

[_Maksutov]

Okay, that's an application in an ongoing project. What about looking at something like geologic strata?

I am not sure that I understand.

I would apply my version of faith. For example, when I was young, I would explore the mountains of southern Utah. There was a particular layer that fascinated me, it was smooth clay, that ground into the finest powder. It wasn't like the other.

I would carry bits of it with me.

But my model was, "I wanted to know what it was, why it was different, how it came to be." So I wanted, I hoped, I looked, and I waited.

When the theory of Winslow meteor came, I felt like I had my answers. The meteor kicked up dust and liquefied the earth around it.

I used my method to get my answer. I'm not 100% sure that is what happened, but it fit. I could have gone back years later, got samples and tried to validate it, but I don't have the time or resources, and my desire to know more isn't strong enough.

But I questioned, wanted to know, hoped for an answer, and got one. What else can one do?

Study geology.

[_SPG]

I do study geology. Not for a living.

[Guest]

I do study geology. Not for a living.

Same here. I was raised to be a rock hound. Somewhere along the way I got more into astronomy, but I still love studying the fossil record. I've been to the Barringer Crater, but it's been almost fifty years ago. Time for a revisit.

If I wanted to understand a particular clay layer, I would turn to geology. Handbooks are available, as are classes and resources online and at local institutions.

I will always favor education over intuition. Intuition is my own feelings, while education is, ideally, the sum of the experiences and recorded knowledge of many others.

[_Maksutov]

So if God won't prove he is communicating to you, why should we accept any terms? Especially since the terms are communicated to you through other people.

This thread has devolved off topic. I have no more interest in it.

You're welcome to bring it back. I don't know if there are any particularly LDS contributions to the tale. I wonder which geographical theory of the Flood is preferred, one where Noah starts out in Missouri or not? There's that pesky question about the location of the Garden of Eden, right? Are there two gardens like two Cumorahs?

[_EdGoble]

You're welcome to bring it back. I don't know if there are any particularly LDS contributions to the tale. I wonder which geographical theory of the Flood is preferred, one where Noah starts out in Missouri or not? There's that pesky question about the location of the Garden of Eden, right? Are there two gardens like two Cumorahs?

There aren't two Cumorahs to me.

Adam started out in Missouri, and there is no need for a second Eden. By Noah's time, they had spread out. There is no need to place Noah in Missouri. LDS tradition (the Huntington statements) place Noah in South Carolina. It might as well be true because it fits. I don't know why the idea of the flood happening in Missouri would be preferred to the idea it happened in South Carolina.