Noah's Ark questions

[_Maksutov]

Swedenborg was a medium. He conversed with Angels, Spirits, God, Jesus, but writing and communication from spirits and about spirits was his main occupation in his late years. He had very detailed information about the angels and the spirit world. I've been reading some of his Dream Diaries and his Arcana Coelestia.

I think it's possible to see Smith as a medium, among other things, if you alter the perspective slightly. Consider that there were no actual plates but that Smith was actually channeling the spirits of Nephi, Moroni, Mormon, etc. They were speaking through him while he had his face buried in the hat.

[_SteelHead]

Did you hear about the midget psychic who escaped from the police?

He was a small medium at large.

A better joke than your Adam and Eve story.

[_Maksutov]

Did you hear about the midget psychic who escaped from the police?

He was a small medium at large.

A better joke than your Adam and Eve story.

[_moksha]

What insight can the Latter Day Saints provide on this question? Why don't they seem to care?

I can answer that. It was a tale from the Epics of Ur which was adopted by the Hebrews as part of their own tales. The story probably comes from a much older oral tradition. Such is the transformation of myth through time.

Since flood stories appear in myriad diverse cultures, it is an archetypal tale. It speaks of human observation and imaginative imagery from many ancient cultures.

With a modern understanding of how the world works, we 21st Century Mormons realize that it is part of our treasure trove of allegorical tales and that it is fictional. On that basis, we can appreciate it. While it doesn't rise to the poetic beauty of the Finnish Kalevala, it is quite creative in its own right.

[_Maksutov]

What insight can the Latter Day Saints provide on this question? Why don't they seem to care?

I can answer that. It was a tale from the Epics of Ur which was adopted by the Hebrews as part of their own tales. The story probably comes from a much older oral tradition. Such is the transformation of myth through time.

Since flood stories appear in myriad diverse cultures, it is an archetypal tale. It speaks of human observation and imaginative imagery from many ancient cultures.

With a modern understanding of how the world works, we 21st Century Mormons realize that it is part of our treasure trove of allegorical tales and that it is fictional. On that basis, we can appreciate it. While it doesn't rise to the poetic beauty of the Finnish Kalevala, it is quite creative in its own right.

With a coating of Campbell, it does look better, doesn't it?

Well, the 21st Century Christian expression of the Ark is an Ark Park.

What sort of Park would Mormons have? ("Temple Square" is not an acceptable answer )

[_SPG]

Swedenborg was a medium. He conversed with Angels, Spirits, God, Jesus, but writing and communication from spirits and about spirits was his main occupation in his late years. He had very detailed information about the angels and the spirit world. I've been reading some of his Dream Diaries and his Arcana Coelestia.

I think it's possible to see Smith as a medium, among other things, if you alter the perspective slightly. Consider that there were no actual plates but that Smith was actually channeling the spirits of Nephi, Moroni, Mormon, etc. They were speaking through him while he had his face buried in the hat.

The "Book" was something he got from Swedenborg, I think. It was a tool, like the seer stone. Yes, it was a channeling tool.

Emma had a larger part in obtaining the book then Church History tells. She supported him in getting the book, might have even helped. I really don't know what the other tools were, the urim an thummim. But the book had the energy and the story and Joseph was able to "discern" that contents. He and Emma were very intent on their work and seemed to have no guile in their intent.

What is interesting to me is, what if Moroni was real?

I appreciate the "god of my understanding" that have gotten from the Mormon faith. I appreciate the flavor Mormons add to the Christian fruit bowl. But . . . . . what if Joseph Smith actually touched on something real? What if the Ancient Spirit of this land gave him a story? To what purpose? To what end?

With the up coming election, I have never been so scared for modern civilization. The government is once again attacking the Native Americans, the world hates us, Russia just announced the Satan 2. crap could go wrong. And the Book of Mormon talks about the Natives Americans basically getting their land back, and that if us invaders stay, that we will live a more righteous type of life.

And I wonder. . . . . . What if the land is more alive and aware than we give it credit for?

[_EdGoble]

Do you have a photo of what is understood to be Adam's altar there? Wilford Woodruff confirmed it was still there.

Here is a link to a picture that I took of what is left, a pile of rubble, from what appears to have been stacked, on "tower" hill:

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-gDOdXESdYNY/WBQ2Qx1JV4I/AAAAAAAAC3Q/8eGVW0871qE957U0FTDwQbpEqk_zICFuACLcB/s1600/AdamOndiAhmanStones.JPG

I can't figure out how to get the picture to show on the message so all I could to is paste the link. Here is another link to a closer picture of one of the stones:

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-HogwsU5nH5c/WBQ5ljZJI8I/AAAAAAAAC3c/eRmF-DqN4rguP3u6s7lRUMK0TuRRTRZMwCLcB/s1600/AdamOndiAhmanStone1.JPG

It seems to be a type of stone (sedimentary) that would contain fossils, which would answer to the description of the stones made by James Talmage.

[_Themis]

Do you have a photo of what is understood to be Adam's altar there? Wilford Woodruff confirmed it was still there.

Here is a link to a picture that I took of what is left, a pile of rubble, from what appears to have been stacked, on "tower" hill:

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-gDOdXESdYNY/WBQ2Qx1JV4I/AAAAAAAAC3Q/8eGVW0871qE957U0FTDwQbpEqk_zICFuACLcB/s1600/AdamOndiAhmanStones.JPG

I can't figure out how to get the picture to show on the message so all I could to is paste the link. Here is another link to a closer picture of one of the stones:

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-HogwsU5nH5c/WBQ5ljZJI8I/AAAAAAAAC3c/eRmF-DqN4rguP3u6s7lRUMK0TuRRTRZMwCLcB/s1600/AdamOndiAhmanStone1.JPG

It seems to be a type of stone (sedimentary) that would contain fossils, which would answer to the description of the stones made by James Talmage.

One wonders why Adam is needed in a world where humans have been running around for many ten's of thousands of years. At least the original story has him as integral as the first human.

[_SteelHead]

Well according to spg, Adam rose out of Africa and separated himself from the black folk, moving him and the white folk to Europe. Seems a theory racist as all get out, but no one called him on it. So the implied purpose of Adams was to be white and delight some?

[_Themis]

Well according to spg, Adam rose out of Africa and separated himself from the black folk, moving him and the white folk to Europe. Seems a theory racist as all get out, but no one called him on it. So the implied purpose of Adams was to be white and delight some?

I didn't pay much attention to him. He seems like a new Franktalk. Here is an interesting article about it.
http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2015/04/how-europeans-evolved-white-skin

Adam is just a fictional character of a story to explain how humans came about. Joseph believed in a young earth and the biblical story, so he came up with revelations to attach to Adam that he was a real person. This is why we see some LDS apologia to make this fit somehow. It becomes impossible to make these obvious fictional stories fit into an old world with humans running around long before 6000 years ago. Adam is no longer needed.