Native American use of Sacred Metal Tablets

[_bomgeography]

I'm just pointing out the Obvious.

The Book of Mormon says they had breastplates and headplates. The Hopewell had breastplates and headplates.

The Book of Mormon says they had woven clothing so did the Hopewell

The Book of Mormon states the Nephite timeline it matches the Hopewell

I could go on and on because there are so many direct connections to include a native American Haplo group x dna that the closest genetic link is in the Middle east.

Native Americans have Book of Mormon cultural links that are unmistakable. For me and those members who believe that the Book of Mormon took place in North America the links are unmistakable.

[_Lemmie]

For everyone who is undecided I think the evidence and historical accounts speak for themselves.

No educated person is undecided, David. Here's the first sentence of your blog post:

It’s a fact that Hopewell Indians made metal sheets. There are Indian traditional accounts of metal plate being used as records.

You jump from "sheets," to making records, when here is how the entire rest of the world defines Hopewell 'sheets':

The Hopewell people pounded the chunks they mined from the ground into flat sheets. Then they cut out shapes and carved designs into the surface.
https://artdocents.wordpress.com/

So, artwork, not written records for angels to pick up. Speaking of written records, here is what actual historians and researchers say about the nonexistence of Hopewell written 'records':

Prehistory is defined as the period before the development of written records. The first written records associated with Ohio come from the mid-1600s, and this is considered the beginning of the historic period in this region.
http://fortancient.org/archaeology/ohio ... imitstart=

You have egregiously misinterpreted the actual Hopewell history.

Additionally, I read a few of your entries as well as posts you made about your process, and found some interesting information about how you actually go about doing your research.

After a couple weeks of research it became quite evident to me....
http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/663 ... el/?page=6

I did a quick Google search.....
http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/664 ... ns/?page=2

One aspect I learned from listening to a podcast....
http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/681 ... ry/?page=2

Like Brant Gardner already said to you:

I guess there is still value to reading things beyond Google.
http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/664 ... ns/?page=2

[_tapirrider]

I'm just pointing out the Obvious.

But you avoid the Vernal Holley map. Why is that?

The Book of Mormon says they had breastplates and headplates. The Hopewell had breastplates and headplates.

And James Adair said that Indians had breast plates and head plates. His book was in print prior to the Book of Mormon. It is just as obvious that Joseph Smith had the means to know about these Indian things before the Book of Mormon was written. It is obvious that you pretend that only the Hopewell had these things and therefore it proves the Book of Mormon. Your cherry picking is a failure because you ignore the obvious facts.

The Book of Mormon says they had woven clothing so did the Hopewell

Writings in print during Joseph Smith's time before the Book of Mormon was written also describe woven Indian clothing. Obvious, same as above. Why is it that you don't point this out?

The Book of Mormon states the Nephite timeline it matches the Hopewell

And by your reasoning is just as obvious that the Mayan timeline is a match. But the most obvious that you don't point out is the people before the Hopewell tradition, those who domesticated the plants that became the food source of the Hopewell culture. That happened before the timeline of the Jaradites and continued uninterrupted among real people without regard to arrivals and influence of fantasy Hebrews.

I could go on and on because there are so many direct connections to include a native American Haplo group x dna that the closest genetic link is in the Middle east.

You will never win the argument of Haplogroup X because you are simply wrong and have lost in those claims. The only way you make it seem workable is by disregarding radiocarbon dating and disregarding the molecular clock refinements and by disregarding obvious facts that the Near Eastern Haplogroup x types from Biblical timelines ARE NOT direct ancestral to Haplogroup X2a that is found in America. The ancestral lines go back long before the timeline of Adam. So now I'm pointing out the obvious - you must ignore, disregard and distort facts of science and toss out evidence and then expect us to believe you. David McKane, you are guilty of fabricating evidence to try to prop up the Book of Mormon.

Native Americans have Book of Mormon cultural links that are unmistakable. For me and those members who believe that the Book of Mormon took place in North America the links are unmistakable.

American Indian ties to the Book of Mormon do not exist. That is an unmistakable conclusion. Your so-called "cultural links" fall apart with the tiniest bit of true research.

[_bomgeography]

I'm just pointing out the Obvious.

But you avoid the Vernal Holley map. Why is that?

The Book of Mormon says they had breastplates and headplates. The Hopewell had breastplates and headplates.

And James Adair said that Indians had breast plates and head plates. His book was in print prior to the Book of Mormon. It is just as obvious that Joseph Smith had the means to know about these Indian things before the Book of Mormon was written. It is obvious that you pretend that only the Hopewell had these things and therefore it proves the Book of Mormon. Your cherry picking is a failure because you ignore the obvious facts.

The Book of Mormon says they had woven clothing so did the Hopewell

Writings in print during Joseph Smith's time before the Book of Mormon was written also describe woven Indian clothing. Obvious, same as above. Why is it that you don't point this out?

The Book of Mormon states the Nephite timeline it matches the Hopewell

And by your reasoning is just as obvious that the Mayan timeline is a match. But the most obvious that you don't point out is the people before the Hopewell tradition, those who domesticated the plants that became the food source of the Hopewell culture. That happened before the timeline of the Jaradites and continued uninterrupted among real people without regard to arrivals and influence of fantasy Hebrews.

I could go on and on because there are so many direct connections to include a native American Haplo group x dna that the closest genetic link is in the Middle east.

You will never win the argument of Haplogroup X because you are simply wrong and have lost in those claims. The only way you make it seem workable is by disregarding radiocarbon dating and disregarding the molecular clock refinements and by disregarding obvious facts that the Near Eastern Haplogroup x types from Biblical timelines ARE NOT direct ancestral to Haplogroup X2a that is found in America. The ancestral lines go back long before the timeline of Adam. So now I'm pointing out the obvious - you must ignore, disregard and distort facts of science and toss out evidence and then expect us to believe you. David McKane, you are guilty of fabricating evidence to try to prop up the Book of Mormon.

Native Americans have Book of Mormon cultural links that are unmistakable. For me and those members who believe that the Book of Mormon took place in North America the links are unmistakable.

American Indian ties to the Book of Mormon do not exist. That is an unmistakable conclusion. Your so-called "cultural links" fall apart with the tiniest bit of true research.

Tapir I disagree also haplo group x2a outside of North America is only found in Iran

[_Lemmie]

Tapir I disagree also haplo group x2a outside of North America is only found in Iran

Deja Vu. From July of this year, on this site:

The np genetic marker (x2a'j) found in Iran is the closest genetic link to North Americans Native Americans. The Book of Mormon and Old Testament explain why and how people from Iran became Native American Indians.

That claim is based on false assumptions, misunderstanding of the DNA studies and requires disregarding radiocarbon dating past 6,000 years ago and remaining ignorant to the improvements in molecular clock measurements of mutation rates.

This recent article addresses x2a'j and the claims of it being evidence for transatlantic migration to the Americas:

Does Mitochondrial Haplogroup X Indicate Ancient Trans-Atlantic Migration to the Americas? A Critical Re-Evaluation
http://www.maneyonline.com/doi/abs/10.1 ... 0000000040

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=42799&hilit=Haplo&p=986959&view=show#p986959

From tapirrider's link:

The idea that haplogroup X2a is derived from an ancient trans-Atlantic migration to the Americas has been repeatedly considered — and rejected — by anthropological geneticists over the last two decades....

We remain unconvinced by the arguments advanced thus far in favor of a trans-Atlantic migration prior to 1500 cal year BP or so. As we have discussed, X2a has not been found anywhere in Eurasia, and phylogeography gives us no compelling reason to think it is more likely to come from Europe than from Siberia. Furthermore, analysis of the complete genome of Kennewick Man, who belongs to the most basal lineage of X2a yet identified, gives no indication of recent European ancestry and moves the location of the deepest branch of X2a to the West Coast, consistent with X2a belonging to the same ancestral population as the other founder mitochondrial haplogroups. Nor have any high-resolution studies of genome-wide data from Native American populations yielded any evidence of Pleistocene European ancestry or trans-Atlantic gene flow.

[bolding mine.]

bomgeo, why would you continue to use an idea that has already been thoroughly and completely discredited?

[_Maksutov]

Fake research to support a fake book. Imagine that.

[_tapirrider]

Tapir I disagree also haplo group x2a outside of North America is only found in Iran

David McKane, X2a IS NOT found in Iran. But then you have demonstrated over and over that truth and details are not important to you if they don't support your claims.

[_bomgeography]

Tapir I disagree also haplo group x2a outside of North America is only found in Iran

David McKane, X2a IS NOT found in Iran. But then you have demonstrated over and over that truth and details are not important to you if they don't support your claims.

X2a'j the closest genetic link to Native American haplo group X is only found in Iran

Genetic marker np 12397 is x2a'j

“We surveyed our Old World haplogroup X mtDNAs for the five diagnostic X2a mutations (table 2) and found a match only for the transition at np 12397 in a Nannagle X2* sequence from Iran. In a parsimony tree, this Iranian mtDNA would share a common ancestor with the Native American clade.”
(Origin and Diffusion of mtDNA haplo group X)

[_tapirrider]

Tapir I disagree also haplo group x2a outside of North America is only found in Iran

David, X2a IS NOT found in Iran. But then you have demonstrated over and over that truth and details are not important to you if they don't support your claims.

X2a'j the closest genetic link to Native American haplo group X is only found in Iran

Genetic marker np 12397 is x2a'j

“We surveyed our Old World haplogroup X mtDNAs for the five diagnostic X2a mutations (table 2) and found a match only for the transition at np 12397 in a Nannagle X2* sequence from Iran. In a parsimony tree, this Iranian mtDNA would share a common ancestor with the Native American clade.”
(Origin and Diffusion of mtDNA haplo group X)

Haplogroup X2a IS NOT Haplogroup X2a'j. Congratulation David McKain, you have demonstrated once more that truth and details are not important to you if they don't support your claims.

Let's have a little peek at that common ancestor, shall we?

Go to PDF page 5 of this link and take a close look at figure 1.
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1 ... ccess=true

14,100 years before present DOES NOT fit your claims, at all, period. Case closed. David, please stop making false statements and then twisting real science and ignoring facts and evidence to try to make your fantasy appear plausible. You are doing nothing more than attempting to fabricate evidence and you do this without even having any shame. So once more, to drive home what you did, you tried to say that haplogroup X2a is found in Iran. That is simply not true. And you cannot cherry pick what you want from science and at the same time disregard radiocarbon dating and mutations rates and the molecular clock and then expect anyone to take anything you say seriously. You cannot make false statements without being called out. The truth betrays you.

[_bomgeography]

Tapir I disagree also haplo group x2a outside of North America is only found in Iran

David, X2a IS NOT found in Iran. But then you have demonstrated over and over that truth and details are not important to you if they don't support your claims.

X2a'j the closest genetic link to Native American haplo group X is only found in Iran

Genetic marker np 12397 is x2a'j

“We surveyed our Old World haplogroup X mtDNAs for the five diagnostic X2a mutations (table 2) and found a match only for the transition at np 12397 in a Nannagle X2* sequence from Iran. In a parsimony tree, this Iranian mtDNA would share a common ancestor with the Native American clade.”
(Origin and Diffusion of mtDNA haplo group X)

Haplogroup X2a IS NOT Haplogroup X2a'j. Congratulation David McKain, you have demonstrated once more that truth and details are not important to you if they don't support your claims.

Let's have a little peek at that common ancestor, shall we?

Go to PDF page 5 of this link and take a close look at figure 1.
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1 ... ccess=true

14,100 years before present DOES NOT fit your claims, at all, period. Case closed. David, please stop making false statements and then twisting real science and ignoring facts and evidence to try to make your fantasy appear plausible. You are doing nothing more than attempting to fabricate evidence and you do this without even having any shame. So once more, to drive home what you did, you tried to say that haplogroup X2a is found in Iran. That is simply not true. And you cannot cherry pick what you want from science and at the same time disregard radiocarbon dating and mutations rates and the molecular clock and then expect anyone to take anything you say seriously. You cannot make false statements without being called out. The truth betrays you.

X2a'j is the closest genetic link to Native American haplo group X. A haplo group X genetic link to native Americans is not found in central or east Asia it's not found in Bering ice bridge area or even Siberia. There dating needs to line up with DNA and Native American cultural Middle East markers