Native American use of Sacred Metal Tablets

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_tapirrider
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Re: Native American use of Sacred Metal Tablets

Post by _tapirrider »

bomgeography wrote:X2aj outside of North America found in Iran is the closest genetic link to Native American Haplo group x2a.


David McKane, that is not what you told me. You specifically told me that haplogroup x2a is found in Iran and it is not. Deal with what you actually said to me instead of bringing up x2a'j.

edited:

I see you are still online David, let's deal with this.

edited:

You just went off line. Just exactly what I expected. You won't deal with it and you run away.
_bomgeography
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Re: Native American use of Sacred Metal Tablets

Post by _bomgeography »

What I meant is that it's the closest genetic link to Native American haplo group x2a. And it's only found in Iran. although it should also be found in Egypt that is where tribe of Manasseh through Joseph of Egypt originated.

Israel has the most diverse distrobution of haplo group X and is beieved to be the place that haplo group X dispersed from.
_Lemmie
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Re: Native American use of Sacred Metal Tablets

Post by _Lemmie »

bomgeography wrote:What I meant is that [X2a'j is] the closest genetic link to Native American haplo group x2a. And it's only found in Iran....

You corrected your error for tapirrider I see, but your statements above are still wrong.
The geographic distribution of X2a’j haplotypes —especially those with some of the defining mutations for X2a (indicating that they belong to the lineage that led to X2a) — would be informative to this question, but no contemporary or ancient individuals belonging to these lineages have been identified, with the possible exception of one individual from Iran with the X2a’j defining transition at mitochondrial nucleotide position 12397. However, because this transition has been observed in other haplogroups and is known to occur recurrently, it is unclear if this Iranian individual belongs to the X2a’j lineage or not (Reidla et al. 2003).... [W]ithout identifying more individuals bearing X2j or X2a’j lineages, any inferences about the geographic origins of X2a’j or X2a are very tenuous.

[size=150]Thus, at this time, there is simply no evidence that X2a evolved in the Near East, Europe, or anywhere in West Eurasia
….

Does Mitochondrial Haplogroup X Indicate Ancient Trans-Atlantic Migration to the Americas? A Critical Re-Evaluation, Jennifer A. Raff & Deborah A. Bolnick (2015)
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1 ... ccess=true


Did you read the article quoted above? It's been presented to you many times, it is published in a peer-reviewed journal by a legitimate academic researcher, and represents a tremendous amount of research.

If you want to continue, you need to explain why your statements, which NO ONE in the academic community interested in these topics agrees with, should be given any weight. Simply re-stating them with no support, inappropriate or missing attributions, and with missing context is nonsensical.
_tapirrider
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Re: Native American use of Sacred Metal Tablets

Post by _tapirrider »

bomgeography wrote:What I meant is that it's the closest genetic link to Native American haplo group x2a. And it's only found in Iran. although it should also be found in Egypt that is where tribe of Manasseh through Joseph of Egypt originated.

Israel has the most diverse distrobution of haplo group X and is beieved to be the place that haplo group X dispersed from.


Thank you David, for admitting that haplogroup x2a is not found in Iran. In the future, please just admit your mistakes up front and immediately, correct yourself and move on.

Now about that haplogroup x2a'j. In the first place, the one case that you have locked onto in Iran is not even certain to be x2a'j. It might be but there is not enough evidence to conclusively determine if it is even x2a'j.

In the second place, the common ancestor to haplogroup x2a and x2a'j dates back thousands of years before Book of Mormon times, even thousands of years before Adam and Eve. So if future finds in Iran reveal x2a'j, it doesn't mean a thing to your claims.

In the third place, Kennewick man has been conclusively identified to have haplogroup x2a and radiocarbon dating places it in America thousands of years before Book of Mormon times, even before Adam and Eve.

Any claims you try to make about x2a'j in Iran are meaningless because of the above facts.

I am aware that you reject the radiocarbon dating of Kennewick man and your reasoning for that has been addressed in the past and found to be flawed.

Because of coalescence times, the molecular clock, radiocarbon and archaeological remains such as Kennewick man, your claims of Egypt, Joseph, tribe of Manasseh and all ties to the Book of Mormon are without merit and completely unsupportable by actual science.
_bomgeography
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Re: Native American use of Sacred Metal Tablets

Post by _bomgeography »

Haplo group X is to believed to have originated in North Africa or the Middle East it matches the Bible and Book of Mormon
_Lemmie
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Re: Native American use of Sacred Metal Tablets

Post by _Lemmie »

bomgeography wrote:Haplo group X is to believed to have originated in North Africa or the Middle East it matches the Bible and Book of Mormon

What do you mean haplo group X "matches...the Book of Mormon"? That is a nonsensical statement.

What exactly does it mean to"match" the Book of Mormon?
_tapirrider
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Re: Native American use of Sacred Metal Tablets

Post by _tapirrider »

bomgeography wrote:Haplo group X is to believed to have originated in North Africa or the Middle East it matches the Bible and Book of Mormon


It cannot possibly match the Bible and Book of Mormon because haplogroup x originated more than 30,000 years ago and then began the mutations that make up the individual haplogroups such as x1, x2a, x2b, x2c, x2a'j, etc. It simply does not match the timelines that you are trying to fit it in, and your claim is not supported by the evidence that scientists have studied and published about.

David, the specific haplogroups in the Near East that you are trying to match up to the Americas are not ancestral to X2a. The common ancestors date back long before the Bible. Kennwick man's DNA analysis proves that it was already in America thousands of years before the Book of Mormon timeline and even before the Biblical timeline of Adam.

The LDS church does not back up your claim.
https://www.LDS.org/topics/book-of-morm ... s?lang=eng

LDS scientist Dr. Ugo Perego has made valuable contributions in the scientific study of the peopling of the Americas, and he does not support your claim.
http://www.cell.com/current-biology/pdf/S0960-9822(08)01618-7.pdf
_EdGoble
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Re: Native American use of Sacred Metal Tablets

Post by _EdGoble »

Themis wrote:You have never answered the questions I have asked.


Oh well. Are you done yet? Because to me its the spirit, and that is what matters to my life, and that's the end of it. You like going around in circles? I guess, because that's what you are doing and I don't owe you jack. I am done with this thread. If you want to have a conversation with me about something else, I'll see you on another thread.
_Themis
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Re: Native American use of Sacred Metal Tablets

Post by _Themis »

EdGoble wrote:
Themis wrote:You have never answered the questions I have asked.


Oh well. Are you done yet? Because to me its the spirit, and that is what matters to my life, and that's the end of it. You like going around in circles? I guess, because that's what you are doing and I don't owe you jack. I am done with this thread. If you want to have a conversation with me about something else, I'll see you on another thread.


You can do whatever you like, but the fact is you have avoided the issue because you don't really know it is the spirit. Sure you think it is. That has never been the issue. The issue is why someone should conclude certain sensory experiences are from the spirit. Your why is the one given by the church. Because they teach you to if your interpretation fits with what the church teaches. They have no methodology other then, if what you interpret fits with what they teach it is from the spirit, which is not a methodology to find truth. Just one to believe what ever they tell you. This is the main tool of the religious con. You should attend some of the more lively churches and see then get into the spirit. Do you think they are getting the spirit of God when they start to jump around and go into fits. Most LDS usually don't think so, but they do. How would you know you are but they are not?
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_bomgeography
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Re: Native American use of Sacred Metal Tablets

Post by _bomgeography »

Haplo group X most likely originated in North Africa and diseninated from Israel. Israel has the most diversity of X. According to the Bible and Book of Mormon. The tribe of Manasseh started in Egypt North Africa and then went to Israel then Iran back to Israel then to North America it's a match

The Bible and Book of Mormon explains how haplo group X arrived in North America

The many Middle East cultural aspects are to many to ignore
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