Since this is a discussion board, could you give some evidence in support of this? On the other hand, you've shopped this stuff all over the internet and no one is buying it so maybe think through your research. I thought this person's comment to you when you tried it on MormonStories almost year ago is still very timely and very poignant:
RLeeG January 29, 2016 at 12:54 pm it feels strange to read posts like David’s now because I was once like David. I found some old ones on the internet, long ones, where I wrote up the greatest evidences I had to defend Mormonism. I thought they were great. Go ahead and prove me wrong, I thought. I am right. Look at this great scholarship I am referencing and discussing and studying.
Now I read those old posts and cringe in embarrassment. I realize now that those I was arguing with passionately were probably thinking, “Wow. Look at this guy. Hey guys, come read this guy’s crazy posts!” Cause when I go back and read them, that is what I am thinking. It’s almost like it must have been someone else. That couldn’t have been me.
David, your posts and references are not convincing. They are full of straw man arguments that attempt to completely deflect the focus away from why the Book of Mormon is not supported by any serious archeologists outside the LDS community.
Not only that, but Clay has already explained that behind these, are a thousand other obstacles you have to pole vault and gymnastics your way around to make the church true. I did it. I deconstructed. Reconstructed. The nuanced constructs of faith I created would impress anyone.
Then one day, I zoomed out and looked at what I had built and was like, WHAT!??!! Craziness. Sheer craziness. What I had built wasn’t even Mormonism any longer. It was just insanity.... http://www.mormonstories.org/thirteen-y ... ristensen/
Nobody has given me any credible or convincing evidence that the Hopewell civilization is not the Nephite people. I think there is still much that can be learned from them.
RlLeeG's story resonates powerfully with me as when I was an apologist as well..... it's one of the reasons why I find Daniel C Peterson apologetics so utterly fascinating these days, not because they're correct but because they are so wildly improbable and so illogical. But I simply could not see that with my apologetic by his glasses on.
Dr CamNC4Me
"Dr. Peterson and his Callithumpian cabal of BYU idiots have been marginalized by their own inevitable irrelevancy defending a fraud."
bomgeography wrote:Nobody has given me any credible or convincing evidence that the Hopewell civilization is not the Nephite people. I think there is still much that can be learned from them.
Philo Sofee wrote:RlLeeG's story resonates powerfully with me as when I was an apologist as well..... it's one of the reasons why I find Daniel C Peterson apologetics so utterly fascinating these days, not because they're correct but because they are so wildly improbable and so illogical. But I simply could not see that with my apologetic by his glasses on.
I'm glad Peterson is no longer with the Neal a maxwell institute. I have nothing but unflattering things to say about him.
Philo Sofee wrote:RlLeeG's story resonates powerfully with me as when I was an apologist as well..... it's one of the reasons why I find Daniel C Peterson apologetics so utterly fascinating these days, not because they're correct but because they are so wildly improbable and so illogical. But I simply could not see that with my apologetic by his glasses on.
McKane has those glasses glued to his head.
Was there a final piece that suddenly made things change for you, or did it gradually build up? I find your story fascinating, so I hope you don't mind the personal question.
bomgeography wrote:I by no means think you are right.
I am curious, do you think the church was wrong to give away the Michigan relics they had? To give them to a museum that displays them as hoax artifacts? The collection included the tablet of the crucifixion of Christ. What do you think? You already admitted that you believe those relics to be authentic. Your church by no means thinks you are right and they gave those relics away because they were convinced it was all a hoax. Do you think you are right and your church, supposedly led by Jesus Christ himself through a living prophet and apostles was wrong? Is that what you think?
bomgeography wrote:Nobody has given me any credible or convincing evidence that the Hopewell civilization is not the Nephite people. I think there is still much that can be learned from them.
Instead of waiting for someone to give you evidence, and instead of fabricating your own wild fantasy claims, do real study and research without bias. Stop ignoring everything that disagrees with your pre-conceived conclusions. Nobody can help you on this David McKane until you are willing to search for truth no matter what it might be and are willing to accept the evidence and facts and change your position even if the truth is different from what you want it to be.
Last edited by Guest on Fri Nov 18, 2016 6:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Philo Sofee wrote:RlLeeG's story resonates powerfully with me as when I was an apologist as well..... it's one of the reasons why I find Daniel C Peterson apologetics so utterly fascinating these days, not because they're correct but because they are so wildly improbable and so illogical. But I simply could not see that with my apologetic by his glasses on.
McKane has those glasses glued to his head.
Was there a final piece that suddenly made things change for you, or did it gradually build up? I find your story fascinating, so I hope you don't mind the personal question.
Are you asking about what my opinion is about Daniel Peterson or what.
bomgeography wrote:I by no means think you are right.
I am curious, do you think the church was wrong to give away the Michigan relics they had? To give them to a museum that displays them as hoax artifacts? The collection included the tablet of the crucifixion of Christ. What do you think? You already admitted that you believe those relics to be authentic. Your church by no means thinks you are right and they gave those relics away because they were convinced it was all a hoax. Do you think you are right and your church, supposedly led by Jesus Christ himself through a living prophet and apostles was wrong? Is that what you think?
I don't care what the church does with the relics. My testimony is not based on the relics but the Book of Mormon. I don't care what the Michigan museum does with the relics as long as they are on display to the public to do otherwise I think would be tragic. The fact that they are portrayed as fake doesn't bother me. There has to be some faith involved in believing in the Book of Mormon. I would regret the day in this life that everyone had a pure knowledge of the truthfulness and authenticity of the lords scripture the Book of excellent Mormon.
bomgeography wrote: I don't care what the church does with the relics. My testimony is not based on the relics but the Book of Mormon. I don't care what the Michigan museum does with the relics as long as they are on display to the public to do otherwise I think would be tragic. The fact that they are portrayed as fake doesn't bother me. There has to be some faith involved in believing in the Book of Mormon. I would regret the day in this life that everyone had a pure knowledge of the truthfulness and authenticity of the lords scripture the Book of excellent Mormon.
So it doesn't bother you in the least that the church doesn't think you are right? You don't care that a living prophet and his 12 apostles, all who claim to be guided by Jesus Christ, decided that the Michigan relics are fake? Is it that you don't care because you are convinced that you are right and they are wrong?
bomgeography wrote: I'm more curious as to what your answer is. And for you it's hypothetical but bountiful artifacts would have Bible depictions, heiroglyphs and Christ depiction correct or not?
My answer to what? Have you asked me a question that I missed?
There is nothing hypothetical in what I have been addressing you with David. You are using known fraudulent, hoax artifacts. No authentic objects have ever been found that correspond to what you are claiming the city of Bountiful artifacts would look like.
Forget the Michigan relics bountiful artifacts would have Bible depiction, heiroglyphs, and Christ depictions. To be honest I'm asking the wrong person.