Can Our Democracy Survive This?

The Off-Topic forum for anything non-LDS related, such as sports or politics. Rated PG through PG-13.
Post Reply
_Mayan Elephant
_Emeritus
Posts: 2408
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:56 pm

Re: Can Our Democracy Survive This?

Post by _Mayan Elephant »

Some Schmo wrote:This seems to be the thing post-election that I am most obsessed with; how do I accept and forgive Drumpf voters?

I seem to be a long way off figuring that out. It's like trying to forgive the murderer of a loved one. Actually, it's exactly that, because the best of our country was just laid to rest. And of course, it doesn't help that you have Drumpf supporters who are obnoxiously telling us we should just get over it when we haven't even seen yet the damage Drumpf is about to do, but have a pretty good idea given his cabinet picks and business reputation.


i cannot speak for the Trump supporters who are obnoxiously telling you to just get over it. i am not one of those.

i am not a Trump voter, so i do not need any of your pity and forgiveness.

i have enough common sense to know that comparing them to the murderer of a loved one is about as crazy crazy as one can get. i too thought you were rather reasonable, but that, my friend, is insanity. if you cannot see the lunacy in comparing sitting across an aisle with someone who voted for Trump with sitting across an aisle with someone that killed your child, well, i am probably not the person to help you process that.

when you are viewing this and filtering it through a lens of crazy, it makes sense that the interpretation is equally crazy.

if you cannot see that there were rational people that saw a clinton cabinet full of mcauliffe, blumenthal, podesta, schultz and every other wall street and neo-con apologist available, and did not pick her, well, then you are just being a cult loser. if you cannot see the lack of credibility in the party that mocked the everloving crap out of romney for pointing a finger at russia, and now pretends russia is the new 80's devil satan antichrist antiglobalism threat, well, good luck with that. no matter what your belief is about russia or putin, if you fail to see what hypocrisy did to the clinton campaign, well that is your problem and does not then, after the fact, equate those that did see it with murderers of your family members.

i will say this again, in other words. Trump did not win because every person with the moral and intellectual integrity of a murderer rose up and put him in office. Trump won because he was the molotov cocktail choice in the primary and in the general election. and he won because clinton lost. clinton lost women, men, minorities, labor, millenials and more. she lost voters with higher education and trade skills. she lost voters that voted for obama, and abstained or switched their votes (me included.) she lost because she was a horrible candidate with zero ideas and ran in the most sexist, racist and condescending campaign we have seen.

to now, after the fact, assign all this morality to that choice, is stupid at best. clinton lost that goddamn campaign. and not in a fluke. she lost florida, ohio, pennsylvania, michigan and wisconsin. she got goddamn trounced. rewriting the obituaries of her political death and demise, is like rewriting the ending of a failed Jackass stunt by Johnny Knoxville. it does not change what went into to the stunt.

she did not actually win because she won the popular vote. that excuse is embarrassing. she did not actually win, but got robbed by russia. that excuse is embarrassing. she did not actually win, but racist murderer equivalents now run our country, that is the crap that got us here. she is not going to flip the electoral college, you whining sniveling malcontents. we are not under siege by russia, you convenient-conspiracy-having pieces of crap.

our democracy can survive a bad president for a bad term. the bigger threat is the classist division that your clinton cult and the dnc were selling and the inevitable uprising it brings/brought. be grateful it went out in a civil vote. the alternative of having clinton's crap for any amount of time was clearly not appealing to most non-california americans, and may have been just a prolonged different problem.

our democracy can be fine.
"Rocks don't speak for themselves" is an unfortunate phrase to use in defense of a book produced by a rock actually 'speaking' for itself... (I have a Question, 5.15.15)
_Maxine Waters
_Emeritus
Posts: 1085
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2016 6:29 am

Re: Can Our Democracy Survive This?

Post by _Maxine Waters »

Obviously, I think my explanation makes a lot more sense than to accept that the existence of some undocumented workers laboring at nearly slave wages, doing menial labor many Americans refuse to do in the first place, is the cause of this income disparity.


Open borders and universal social welfare entitlements are a wonderful combination for raising the wages and standard of living for native born Americans. Why not just divide our salaries amongst the 6 billion impoverished people of this world? To refuse to do so would be racist and xenophobic would it not?
“There were mothers who took this [Rodney King LA riots] as an opportunity to take some milk, to take some bread, to take some shoes ... They are not crooks.”

This liberal would be about socializing … uh, umm. … Would be about, basically, taking over, and the government running all of your companies.
_Maxine Waters
_Emeritus
Posts: 1085
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2016 6:29 am

Re: Can Our Democracy Survive This?

Post by _Maxine Waters »

I'm a director in an agency specializing in mental health supports for cognitively disabled adults. My job is a mix of supervising supervisors, communications, and authoring programs. I directly oversee a budget in the 7 figures.

You pretend to be wealthy for the purposes of trolling. This makes your attempt to portray me as unemployed amusing.


So you work for the government? Sorry, I guess Bach already addressed this.

ETA: It won't bother me a bit if Trump doesn't complete the wall. The legislation for everything we need already exists. All Trump has to do is enforce the laws that are on the books right now.
“There were mothers who took this [Rodney King LA riots] as an opportunity to take some milk, to take some bread, to take some shoes ... They are not crooks.”

This liberal would be about socializing … uh, umm. … Would be about, basically, taking over, and the government running all of your companies.
_Chap
_Emeritus
Posts: 14190
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:23 am

Re: Can Our Democracy Survive This?

Post by _Chap »

Maxine Waters wrote:Open borders and universal social welfare entitlements are a wonderful combination for raising the wages and standard of living for native born Americans.


Um, who in the recent election campaign actually advocated that policy combination? Please give a link to an explicit statement advocating 'open borders'.

Why not just divide our salaries amongst the 6 billion impoverished people of this world? To refuse to do so would be racist and xenophobic would it not?


Nope. It would be a rational and responsible policy to refuse to divide the salaries of any given country 'amongst the 6 billion impoverished people of this world'.

Did anyone advocate such a crazy idea? Again, Please give a link to an explicit statement.
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
_Doctor CamNC4Me
_Emeritus
Posts: 21663
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:02 am

Re: Can Our Democracy Survive This?

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

Maxine Waters wrote:
I'm a director in an agency specializing in mental health supports for cognitively disabled adults. My job is a mix of supervising supervisors, communications, and authoring programs. I directly oversee a budget in the 7 figures.

You pretend to be wealthy for the purposes of trolling. This makes your attempt to portray me as unemployed amusing.


So you work for the government? Sorry, I guess Bach already addressed this.

ETA: It won't bother me a bit if Trump doesn't complete the wall. The legislation for everything we need already exists. All Trump has to do is enforce the laws that are on the books right now.


Majax,

Do you take any government monies, or do you operate on a cash system only?

eta: In fact, do you accept Federal Reserve notes instead of goods, services, or precious metals?

- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
_EAllusion
_Emeritus
Posts: 18519
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 12:39 pm

Re: Can Our Democracy Survive This?

Post by _EAllusion »

Maxine Waters wrote:
I'm a director in an agency specializing in mental health supports for cognitively disabled adults. My job is a mix of supervising supervisors, communications, and authoring programs. I directly oversee a budget in the 7 figures.

You pretend to be wealthy for the purposes of trolling. This makes your attempt to portray me as unemployed amusing.


So you work for the government? Sorry, I guess Bach already addressed this.

No, I don't work for the government. My funding comes less from government resources than yours, as an optometrist, would because of blended funding sources.

A substantial portion of my funding comes from the government, though, yes. I'm basically society's cheaper and significantly more humane alternative to police and jails. Short of a Nazi-esque holocaust of the disabled, people like me will exist. The question is how you want to pay for it.
_Maxine Waters
_Emeritus
Posts: 1085
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2016 6:29 am

Re: Can Our Democracy Survive This?

Post by _Maxine Waters »

Um, who in the recent election campaign actually advocated that policy combination? Please give a link to an explicit statement advocating 'open borders'.


Open borders and social welfare entitlements are the platform of the Democratic party. Working taxpaying Americans rejected that platform in 2016.

I'll grant you that it was a razor thin margin. I still maintain that the takers outnumber the taxed seeing Hillary Clinton did win the popular vote. Perhaps many takers felt too secure in the social welfare income taxpayer funded benefits they had obtained under Obama and were simply too lazy to vote.
“There were mothers who took this [Rodney King LA riots] as an opportunity to take some milk, to take some bread, to take some shoes ... They are not crooks.”

This liberal would be about socializing … uh, umm. … Would be about, basically, taking over, and the government running all of your companies.
_The CCC
_Emeritus
Posts: 6746
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 4:51 am

Re: Can Our Democracy Survive This?

Post by _The CCC »

Liar.

The Democratic Party Platform is not for open borders.
SEE https://www.democrats.org/issues/immigration-reform

Our social safety net such as it is is not open to illegal aliens, and most legal ones too.
_Chap
_Emeritus
Posts: 14190
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:23 am

Re: Can Our Democracy Survive This?

Post by _Chap »

Maxine Waters wrote:
Um, who in the recent election campaign actually advocated that policy combination? Please give a link to an explicit statement advocating 'open borders'.


Open borders ... are the platform of the Democratic party.


Please refer me to a site where I can read a statement by the Democratic Party saying that the borders of the US should be open.

(If that is the case, it would not be consistent with Obama's actions in deporting a fairly large number of illegal immigrants. But the Obama is not the Democratic party I suppose.)
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
_EAllusion
_Emeritus
Posts: 18519
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 12:39 pm

Re: Can Our Democracy Survive This?

Post by _EAllusion »

Maxine Waters wrote:
Um, who in the recent election campaign actually advocated that policy combination? Please give a link to an explicit statement advocating 'open borders'.


Open borders and social welfare entitlements are the platform of the Democratic party. Working taxpaying Americans rejected that platform in 2016.

I'll grant you that it was a razor thin margin. I still maintain that the takers outnumber the taxed seeing Hillary Clinton did win the popular vote. Perhaps many takers felt too secure in the social welfare income taxpayer funded benefits they had obtained under Obama and were simply too lazy to vote.


Republicans draw pretty well among white "takers." If you took away all the takers from the Republican party, they'd never win an election again. The idea that you can use Republican / Democrat voting splits to determine who is a net tax beneficiary is absurd.
Post Reply