Can you discuss this and tell me why you believe this,in your own words and own citations from the Bible and LDS scripture...and how they compliment each other.
The Bible, and Hebrew tradition does not in anyway allow for man to have the same power, knowledge, glory and dominion of God, nor does it teach that men will create worlds for their spirit children to live on.
IF you even hinted at this in Biblical times it meant a rock party...literally.
You have a opportunity to speak without moderation and use your own understanding about LDS theology. I was born and raised in the church and was taught these things with FARMS, FAIR and JL...I guess what I asking is, we al know who you are in regards to thesometimesaint, and the old days of FAIR Forums, so we have a great opportunity to be real with each other without moderators that dictate the discourse. So not general cut and pastes, no generalities, but a deep, at least as deep as we can get on a forum, about LDS core thought.
by the way, after the holiday I would like to have lunch with you, I'll buy. I just wonder if we know each other, I bet you know many folks I grew up with in the church or their folks...and maybe a relative or two. Kenny Brown, Jimmy Ferguson, Jackie Moser, Les Antinucci, Joe Faye?
20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you. (Matthew 17)
If you have the faith of a mustard seed you can remove mountains what happens when you have the faith of a mustard tree instead of a seed. the mustard seed is used for a reason compared to other herb the plants are relatively small but mustard seed plant becomes a small tree. Second part of this there will come a day when faith will not exist everthing will be revealed or known first hand. If faith can remove mountains what can pure knowledge and perfection do?
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 21, 2016 11:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
bomgeography wrote:This doctrine is biblical not specific just to LDS beliefs
The Bible teaches the same thing that man can be exalted and become like Heavenly Father. Look at Jesus Christ, he was once a mortal being who is now an exalted being.
Psalms 82:6 6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
Christ quotes himself. John 10:34 34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
Christ was not perfect until after his mortal existence he learned from that which he suffered. After his resurrection only then was he perfect. Luke 13:32 Hebrew 5:8,9
32 And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.
8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Christ tells the people to be perfect like Heavenly father he does not include himself. After his resurrection and perfection he tells the Nephites to be perfect like himself and Heavenly Father. Mathew 5:28 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. 3Nephi 12:48 48 Therefore I would that ye should be perfect even as I, or your Father who is in heaven is perfect.
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: (Philippians 2)
7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ. (Galatians 4)
40 The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master. (Luke 6)
The are more verses in the Bible that talk about this but these get the point across
Ah, not really! You are adding your own meaning to those scriptures. I am an agnostic, so I have no dog in this fight, but isn't it clear in the Bible that there is only one God? The doctrine of the trinity tosses Jesus (and the holy spirit, whatever that is) into the mix, but the very confused bomgeography has not been invited.
I am afraid that divinity is not in the cards for you. You will just have to settle for being a very bad historian.
This, or any other post that I have made or will make in the future, is strictly my own opinion and consequently of little or no value.
"Faith is believing something you know ain't true" Twain.
Can you discuss this and tell me why you believe this,in your own words and own citations from the Bible and LDS scripture...and how they compliment each other.
The Bible, and Hebrew tradition does not in anyway allow for man to have the same power, knowledge, glory and dominion of God, nor does it teach that men will create worlds for their spirit children to live on.
IF you even hinted at this in Biblical times it meant a rock party...literally.
You have a opportunity to speak without moderation and use your own understanding about LDS theology. I was born and raised in the church and was taught these things with FARMS, FAIR and JL...I guess what I asking is, we al know who you are in regards to thesometimesaint, and the old days of FAIR Forums, so we have a great opportunity to be real with each other without moderators that dictate the discourse. So not general cut and pastes, no generalities, but a deep, at least as deep as we can get on a forum, about LDS core thought.
by the way, after the holiday I would like to have lunch with you, I'll buy. I just wonder if we know each other, I bet you know many folks I grew up with in the church or their folks...and maybe a relative or two. Kenny Brown, Jimmy Ferguson, Jackie Moser, Les Antinucci, Joe Faye?
Eternity is millions and billions of years what do you plan on doing during your spare time assuming you are perfected through Christ.
bomgeography wrote:This doctrine is biblical not specific just to LDS beliefs
The Bible teaches the same thing that man can be exalted and become like Heavenly Father. Look at Jesus Christ, he was once a mortal being who is now an exalted being.
Psalms 82:6 6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
Christ quotes himself. John 10:34 34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
Christ was not perfect until after his mortal existence he learned from that which he suffered. After his resurrection only then was he perfect. Luke 13:32 Hebrew 5:8,9
32 And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.
8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Christ tells the people to be perfect like Heavenly father he does not include himself. After his resurrection and perfection he tells the Nephites to be perfect like himself and Heavenly Father. Mathew 5:28 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. 3Nephi 12:48 48 Therefore I would that ye should be perfect even as I, or your Father who is in heaven is perfect.
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: (Philippians 2)
7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ. (Galatians 4)
40 The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master. (Luke 6)
The are more verses in the Bible that talk about this but these get the point across
Ah, not really! You are adding your own meaning to those scriptures. I am an agnostic, so I have no dog in this fight, but isn't it clear in the Bible that there is only one God? The doctrine of the trinity tosses Jesus (and the holy spirit, whatever that is) into the mix, but the very confused bomgeography has not been invited.
I am afraid that divinity is not in the cards for you. You will just have to settle for being a very bad historian.
Quasimodo wrote:Ah, not really! You are adding your own meaning to those scriptures. I am an agnostic, so I have no dog in this fight, but isn't it clear in the Bible that there is only one God? The doctrine of the trinity tosses Jesus (and the holy spirit, whatever that is) into the mix, but the very confused bomgeography has not been invited.
I am afraid that divinity is not in the cards for you. You will just have to settle for being a very bad historian.
There is no Trinity in the Bible. That is a later rationalization to defend against the idea that Christians are polytheistic. by the way Elohim is a plural noun for God. God confirms it is Genesis SEE Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Quasimodo wrote:Ah, not really! You are adding your own meaning to those scriptures. I am an agnostic, so I have no dog in this fight, but isn't it clear in the Bible that there is only one God? The doctrine of the trinity tosses Jesus (and the holy spirit, whatever that is) into the mix, but the very confused bomgeography has not been invited.
I am afraid that divinity is not in the cards for you. You will just have to settle for being a very bad historian.
There is no Trinity in the Bible. That is a later rationalization to defend against the idea that Christians are polytheistic. by the way Elohim is a plural noun for God. God confirms it is Genesis SEE Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Good point ccc the word trinity is not in the Bible and was not invented till hundreds of years after Christ death. I would love for one of the atheist to attempt to explain the trinity also known as the nicene creed. During the very early time of the church the early Christians very well could have believed that Heavenly Father Christ his son and the Holy Ghost are three distinct personages.
The understanding referred to with the word Trinity was developed by the Church leaders to whom the Holy Spirity was promised to enable them to clarify understanding. It was their job to take what was in the Bible , study it and see what was implied.
The Bible does not use the word nor specify the concept of the Trinity. It was developed by the church with reflection on the Bible. It would be possible to historically think about this by saying that the strongest thinkers involved with the question in the first centuries of the Christian faith came to believe that the Trinity was the best understanding of the process of atonement and found that understanding implied in partial form in the scriptures.
My experience in speaking with Mormons about the Trinity is that it is like explaining the concept of north east south and west to the family cat. It is not that a cat cannot find its way around. It just does not think in the categories north south etc.
huckelberry wrote:The understanding referred to with the word Trinity was developed by the Church leaders to whom the Holy Spirity was promised to enable them to clarify understanding. It was their job to take what was in the Bible , study it and see what was implied.
The Bible does not use the word nor specify the concept of the Trinity. It was developed by the church with reflection on the Bible. It would be possible to historically think about this by saying that the strongest thinkers involved with the question in the first centuries of the Christian faith came to believe that the Trinity was the best understanding of the process of atonement and found that understanding implied in partial form in the scriptures.
My experience in speaking with Mormons about the Trinity is that it is like explaining the concept of north east south and west to the family cat. It is not that a cat cannot find its way around. It just does not think in the categories north south etc.
In some cosmologies within Christianity there are all kinds of angels and saints and a Madonna that add complexity. In others the complexity is perceived within the Godhead. In still others the complexity is in the scriptures or the history. How much difference does it make? Hmm.
