Answers to Creationist Attacks on C-14 Dating

The upper-crust forum for scholarly, polite, and respectful discussions only. Heavily moderated. Rated G.
_The CCC
_Emeritus
Posts: 6746
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 4:51 am

Re: Answers to Creationist Attacks on C-14 Dating

Post by _The CCC »

LittleNipper wrote:
I didn't make up anything. The finished Bible is 2000 years old --- I but a Baby-boomer.


The finished Catholic Bible is about 1600 years old. The KJV of the Bible dates from 1611. Totally irrelevant to an earth that is ~4.55 billion years old.
_huckelberry
_Emeritus
Posts: 4559
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 2:29 am

Re: Answers to Creationist Attacks on C-14 Dating

Post by _huckelberry »

spotlight wrote:
LittleNipper wrote:http://www.wasdarwinright.com/geologicalcolumn.htm

What's the matter Little Nip? Are you out of ammo? You keep reposting stuff that has already been refuted.

"The column is supposed to represent a vertical cross-section through the earth’s crust, with the most recently deposited (therefore youngest) rocks at the surface and the oldest, earliest rocks deposited on the crystalline “basement” rocks at the bottom. If one wishes to check out this standard column (or standard geologic age system), where can he go to see it for himself? There is only one place in all the world to see the standard geologic column. That’s in the textbook! ... almost any textbook, in fact, that deals with evolution or earth history. A typical textbook rendering of the standard column is shown in Figure 44. This standard column is supposed to be at least 100 miles [160 km] thick (some writers say up to 200 [320 km]), representing the total sedimentary activity of all of the geologic ages. However, the average thickness of each local geologic column is about one mile (in some places, the column has essentially zero thickness, in a few places it may be up to 16 or so miles [25 km], but the worldwide average is about one mile [1.6 km]). The standard column has been built up by superposition of local columns from many different localities." (Morris and Parker, 1982 - Emphasis in original). From The geological column: Does it exist? To top


The entire column exists in North Dakota and several other places around the globe. Since your link starts with an outright lie I'll leave you to yourself to wallow in your religion which must be the same, a lie.

I am unsure if the website is just a failure to understand or and intentional destruction of understanding.

If all the layers of sedimentary rock were laid down in one world wide event one would expect to find them all all over the place. Normally they are not and considering what is missing in one area and how that area fits with other areas start to tell a story of what happened. The web site skips that and in skipping that avoids almost all of geology.

this web site does not talk about the large amounts of igneous and metamorphic rocks in the world. Why ? because how they fit together with the sedimentary rocks starts to show how very different sorts of events have happened at different times.

In the Wallowa mountains of northeastern Oregon there are high peaks made of granitic rock right next to peaks of metamorphised limestone next to multiple layered sedimentary rock. How did these get fit together? They are all above the 3000 ft thick layer of basalt which in Hells Canyon next door is on top of these same layers of sedimentary rock. These sedimenary rocks have been bent into great folds like a rumpled rug but the top of the curve is all gone.

Fitting these together tells a story. The sediments were laid down flat and thick in the ocean. To have layers of limestone and layers of mudsilt stone inbetween shows changing periods of activity. In the Wallows there are areas of alternating layers miles thick(they now lie at a steep diagonal so deep is visible going up the canyon) These layers at first flat were compressed together into folds thousands of feet deep. After that igneous rock was injected into big underground pools where cooling slowing turned into rock with minerals sperated out into crystals unlike lava cooling quickly on the surface. This granitic rock got to the top of mountains because the area was raised up into a mountain range which at least once (appears more than once) was eroded away into low hills. that is why the top of the sediment curves are all gone and the granite brought to the top.

A very interesting feature here is that south of the current higher peaks is an area composed of the same collection of rocks. but all low rounded hills almost level. This area is surrounded by the Columbia plateau basalt like a sea surrounding an island. Clearly the Wallowa mountains were worn to a low mound before the basalt eruptions started. Those basalt eruptions were not at once, there are layers of soil and sediment between them those some of those layers are thin. After the time the basalt was spread out the Wallowa mountains were raised up again some three thousand feet. Interestingly though this left the south end of the island at the low elevation the new mountain making raised a few pieces of the basalt cake on the East end of the mountains (Aneroid peak, where the basalt and granitic rock fit together)

This last uplift of the Wallowa mountains is most recent event in a long series of events observed here. Yet the mountains have been there long enough that deep canyons have been eroded. Glaciers have carved out large basins extending down canyons even to dig a lake at the northedge of the mountains. The glarciers have subsequently melted but their fingerprints are all over the mountains.

The Minam river flows from the center of the montains and within five miles of its source it is in a canyon over 3000 feet deep cut out of solid granitic block. I mention that because this rock is quite hard and comes in massive form not pieces. It is slow to be eroded by a small stream.

3000 feet deep, that canyon in the most recent mountain creation, last of a series of mountain creations, was not recent.

(if nobody cares about this little story, ok, I enjoy going over some of it from time to time. It takes my memory to places I enjoy)
_The CCC
_Emeritus
Posts: 6746
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 4:51 am

Re: Answers to Creationist Attacks on C-14 Dating

Post by _The CCC »

My mom was born in Wallowa. :smile:
_huckelberry
_Emeritus
Posts: 4559
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 2:29 am

Re: Answers to Creationist Attacks on C-14 Dating

Post by _huckelberry »

The CCC wrote:My mom was born in Wallowa. :smile:

that's a pleasant thought, at least on this winter day it takes my mind to the area.(small town for me on the way)
_Lemmie
_Emeritus
Posts: 10590
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 7:25 pm

Re: Answers to Creationist Attacks on C-14 Dating

Post by _Lemmie »

huckelberry wrote:
I am unsure if the website is just a failure to understand or and intentional destruction of understanding.

If all the layers of sedimentary rock were laid down in one world wide event one would expect to find them all all over the place. Normally they are not and considering what is missing in one area and how that area fits with other areas start to tell a story of what happened. The web site skips that and in skipping that avoids almost all of geology.

this web site does not talk about the large amounts of igneous and metamorphic rocks in the world. Why ? because how they fit together with the sedimentary rocks starts to show how very different sorts of events have happened at different times.

In the Wallowa mountains of northeastern Oregon there are high peaks made of granitic rock right next to peaks of metamorphised limestone next to multiple layered sedimentary rock. How did these get fit together? They are all above the 3000 ft thick layer of basalt which in Hells Canyon next door is on top of these same layers of sedimentary rock. These sedimenary rocks have been bent into great folds like a rumpled rug but the top of the curve is all gone.

Fitting these together tells a story. The sediments were laid down flat and thick in the ocean. To have layers of limestone and layers of mudsilt stone inbetween shows changing periods of activity. In the Wallows there are areas of alternating layers miles thick(they now lie at a steep diagonal so deep is visible going up the canyon) These layers at first flat were compressed together into folds thousands of feet deep. After that igneous rock was injected into big underground pools where cooling slowing turned into rock with minerals sperated out into crystals unlike lava cooling quickly on the surface. This granitic rock got to the top of mountains because the area was raised up into a mountain range which at least once (appears more than once) was eroded away into low hills. that is why the top of the sediment curves are all gone and the granite brought to the top.

A very interesting feature here is that south of the current higher peaks is an area composed of the same collection of rocks. but all low rounded hills almost level. This area is surrounded by the Columbia plateau basalt like a sea surrounding an island. Clearly the Wallowa mountains were worn to a low mound before the basalt eruptions started. Those basalt eruptions were not at once, there are layers of soil and sediment between them those some of those layers are thin. After the time the basalt was spread out the Wallowa mountains were raised up again some three thousand feet. Interestingly though this left the south end of the island at the low elevation the new mountain making raised a few pieces of the basalt cake on the East end of the mountains (Aneroid peak, where the basalt and granitic rock fit together)

This last uplift of the Wallowa mountains is most recent event in a long series of events observed here. Yet the mountains have been there long enough that deep canyons have been eroded. Glaciers have carved out large basins extending down canyons even to dig a lake at the northedge of the mountains. The glarciers have subsequently melted but their fingerprints are all over the mountains.

The Minam river flows from the center of the montains and within five miles of its source it is in a canyon over 3000 feet deep cut out of solid granitic block. I mention that because this rock is quite hard and comes in massive form not pieces. It is slow to be eroded by a small stream.

3000 feet deep, that canyon in the most recent mountain creation, last of a series of mountain creations, was not recent.

(if nobody cares about this little story, ok, I enjoy going over some of it from time to time. It takes my memory to places I enjoy)

I enjoyed it, huckelberry, thank you. Your memory palace is quite majestic!
_DrW
_Emeritus
Posts: 7222
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:57 am

Re: Answers to Creationist Attacks on C-14 Dating

Post by _DrW »

The CCC wrote:My mom was born in Wallowa. :smile:

The Lake Wallowa Boy Scout Camp has to be one the best around. One could earn so many different kinds of merit badges there, it was hard to know where to start. Our troop's summer camp there was a highlight of the year when I was in Scouts.
David Hume: "---Mistakes in philosophy are merely ridiculous, those in religion are dangerous."

DrW: "Mistakes in science are learning opportunities and are eventually corrected."
_DrW
_Emeritus
Posts: 7222
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:57 am

Re: Answers to Creationist Attacks on C-14 Dating

Post by _DrW »

Huckelberry,

Thanks for the geological tour. I enjoyed reading what you had to say about the Wallowa mountains.

From the epic Lake Missoula floods and resulting scab-lands, to the majestic Cascade volcanoes and their lava tube caves, the geology of the Pacific Northwest (and especially the Columbia Plateau in Washington and Oregon) has got to be some of the most varied and interesting anywhere.

Are you a geologist, by the way?
David Hume: "---Mistakes in philosophy are merely ridiculous, those in religion are dangerous."

DrW: "Mistakes in science are learning opportunities and are eventually corrected."
_LittleNipper
_Emeritus
Posts: 4518
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:49 pm

Re: Answers to Creationist Attacks on C-14 Dating

Post by _LittleNipper »

The CCC wrote:
LittleNipper wrote:
I didn't make up anything. The finished Bible is 2000 years old --- I but a Baby-boomer.


The finished Catholic Bible is about 1600 years old. The KJV of the Bible dates from 1611. Totally irrelevant to an earth that is ~4.55 billion years old.
The newest book of the Bible is the book of Revelations and dates to about 95 AD. The earth was created by God, about 7000 years ago. You must prove that there is no God in order to exclude God as data. The only way a scientist may exclude God is if he can create biological life from stone, water and electricity himself. Since a thinking being cannot concoct biological life from inert objects, it is totally ridiculous for a scientist to imagine life originated spontaneously on its own or nature originated life. The only other possibility is that an all powerful God is the author of life. And as the author of life, what is or isn't possible is entirely in God's hands and not up to your imagination or incomplete scientific data.
_LittleNipper
_Emeritus
Posts: 4518
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:49 pm

Re: Answers to Creationist Attacks on C-14 Dating

Post by _LittleNipper »

spotlight wrote:


The atheist looks at the fossil evidence and sees overwhelming evidence for the theory of macroevolution, whereas the Christian looks at the same data and finds evidence for the Genesis flood and considers macroevolutionary theory contradicted by the lack of intermediate species.

I posted this before.
https://ageofrocks.org/2014/08/23/chemo ... d-geology/
The flud cannot account for what we see in the geologic column. You have to account for ALL of the evidence. Your Christian buddy is only accepting into his sphere of consideration evidence that he can twist to support his preconceived worldview. If you would look for "the truth" you have to abandon ALL worldviews and follow the evidence where ever it leads us.

There are intermediate species. Especially is this apparent in the evolution of the mammalian ear.
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrar ... vograms_05
How on earth can these fossil transitions be explained by a world wide flood? They can't and are not. A flud is not the conclusion of looking at such evidence. It is apparent that the author started with the assumption that a flud occurred and is unwilling to relinquish that viewpoint no matter what evidence he comes across.

This is really a very egregiously bad article you have linked.

There is no complete geologic column in nature to be found. Evoluted Scientuts simply use their circular reasoning to date fossils. They use the fossil to date the strata and use the strata to date the fossils. And they exclude GOD because they can make biological life ------ oh wait ---- no they imagine this will be possible. But the evoluted scientuts are allowed to do what they want. They know what is "correct". :ugeek:
_Maksutov
_Emeritus
Posts: 12480
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:19 pm

Re: Answers to Creationist Attacks on C-14 Dating

Post by _Maksutov »

LittleNipper wrote:There is no complete geologic column in nature to be found. Evoluted Scientuts simply use their circular reasoning to date fossils. They use the fossil to date the strata and use the strata to date the fossils. And they exclude GOD because they can make biological life ------ oh wait ---- no they imagine this will be possible. But the evoluted scientuts are allowed to do what they want. They know what is "correct". :ugeek:


https://www.worldslastchance.com/biblic ... world.html

Below, we will highlight some of the points that have led WLC to embrace the "Flat Earth." This is not at all intended to be an exhaustive list of proof or evidence. It should, however, prove sufficient to encourage all to begin an honest investigation of this most intriguing and important subject.

It is not easy to shake off an entire lifetime of incessant conditioning and deceptive propaganda, but by the Father's grace, it can be achieved. It is our prayer that you will lay your prejudices and presuppositions at the door of investigation and take the time to study this out with an open mind and honest heart.
"God" is the original deus ex machina. --Maksutov
Post Reply