DNA scientists claim that Cherokees are from the Middle East

[_bomgeography]

Lamanite is not derogatory

[_bomgeography]

You may think lamanite is derogatory but for millions of people who cherish the Book of Mormon it's not. It's a matter of long held beliefs. If you do not like LDS beliefs or find LDS beliefs offensive your on the wrong forum. People on the forum freely discuss LDS beliefs including those who are descendants of the lamanites.

[_Lemmie]

Have you been reading Dr. Southerton's thread the last couple of days, McKane?

X2a has never been found outside of the Americas. It is very distantly related to X lineages from Asia, Europe and the Middle East. There is no connection with Israel. If you are reading stuff by Rodney Meldrum you are reading the words of a charlatan. He has no training in science. He's a salesman and a good one.
viewtopic.php?p=1039331#p1039331

and

DNA scientists tend to be particularly dogmatic in their claims and this is especially true when it comes to tracing ancestry. Anthropology and archaeology are very subjective sciences. Evidence can be interpreted in many ways. But DNA evidence leaves little room for interpretation. That's largely because its built on mathematics. At the heart of any DNA research examining relatedness between people or any other organism for that matter, is mathematics. If you simply count up the number of DNA differences between any two organisms, you can obtain an objective measure of relatedness. More closely related organisms have fewer DNA differences in their genomes. The same is true of people. All major human populations have been DNA tested and there are fewer DNA differences between the DNA of Native Americans and Siberians than any other population. Those facts will not change and they are on par with the sorts of DNA facts used to lock people up for life.
viewtopic.php?p=1039356#p1039356

and of course his OP:

I just wanted to give an update on the hunt for Israelite DNA in Native Americans. The PR department (DNA essay writers) would like the members to believe this is a fruitless exercise because we don't know what Lehi's DNA looks like. And after all that pesky DNA science is pretty tentative and changing all the time. Unfortunately for the church, the already conclusive results of the late 90s have been re-confirmed over and over again during the last decade.

Can there be any doubt about the ancestry of Book of Mormon people? Lehi was a Hebrew and he lived in Jerusalem. The Lehites, Mulekites and Jaredites clearly came from the biblical lands of the Middle East so their descendants would have been related to contemporary Middle Easterners whose DNA is well characterized.

The table below summarises the current state of mitochondrial DNA research on Native Americans. Approaching 200 tribal groups have been tested and they are all unrelated to Middle Eastern populations. Their DNA is most closely related to people descended from Siberian ancestors who lived near Lake Baikal 25,000 years ago. Even in Mesoamerica, the most likely Book of Mormon lands according to Daniel Peterson and his cronies, there is nary a trace of Middle Eastern DNA.



The Church’s DNA essay is pure PR spin. It admits the links to Asia, but it says they are tentative. That is rubbish.

This is the new apologetic line that people must swallow. When Lehi and his family arrived in the Promised Land they found it was widely inhabited by Native Americans. But since they were not God’s chosen people they didn’t deserve a mention in the record. In order to populate the large Book of Mormon civilizations, the descendants of Lehi intermarried with and then quickly ruled the native populations they encountered. As a consequence of this story, we can assume that Lehi’s DNA was diluted away to the point where it may never be detected. Voila!!! The Book of Mormon story now fits with the facts!!!

Lets look at what has happened here. The church says the science is tentative, meaning it could change at any moment. But what has changed? The way Mormons interpret the historicity of the Book of Mormon. Science has known the Asian ancestry of Native Americans for over 100 years. The essay illustrates beautifully that it is Mormon doctrines (alternative facts) that are tentative and changeable.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=45348

[_bomgeography]

Nearly one-third of Native American genes come from west Eurasian peoples with ties to the Middle East and Europe
(“Great Surprise”—Native Americans Have West Eurasian Origins
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... -american- people-migration-siberia-genetics/)


“To date, haplogroup X has not been unambiguously identified in Asia, raising the possibility that some Native American founders were of Caucasian ancestry.”
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 9707616292

“These Galilee Druze individuals represent the refugium of an ancestral group with high diversity and high frequency of haplogroup X, which was more prevalent in the region in antiquity, and from which the global diversity of X mtDNA haplogroup emerged.”

“We found that 39 of 41 haplogroup X Druze individuals were from the Galilee heights (Table S2), corresponding to 21.4% (39/182) of the samples from that region. Enrichment analysis revealed that both X1 and X2 were highly enriched in this region”


“Phylogenetic analysis and coalescence estimates for American Indian and European haplogroup X mtDNAs exclude the possibility that the occurrence of haplogroup X in American Indians is due to recent European admixture.”
(The Presence of Mitochondrial haplogroup X in Altaians from South Siberia Am. J. Hum. Genet. 69:

Isaerl has the highest diversity of haplo group x

Although there is a small group of x found in the altain region of Asia it's not specifically related to Native American haplo group x.



Simon statements that Native American dna have its closest genetic link in Siberia's lake bikail is very erroneous. Haplo group x is not even found in Siberia. He should correct this and is misleading his readers.

Simon does not want to admit this but the closest genetic link to native American haplo group x is found in the Middle East specifically Iran. The farther you get away from the Middle East the less genetic relation there is to Native American haplo group x

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ha ... p_X_(mtDNA).PNG

“We surveyed our Old World haplogroup X mtDNAs for the five diagnostic X2a mutations (table 2) and found a match only for the transition at np 12397 in a single X2* sequence from Iran. In a parsimony tree, this Iranian mtDNA would share a common ancestor with the Native American clade.”
(Origin and Diffusion of mtDNA haplogroup X,
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1180497/)

Here is some interesting research that places doubt on the make believe barren Bering ice bridge theory

“The prevailing theory is that the first Americans arrived in a single wave, and all Native American populations today descend from this one group of adventurous founders. But now there’s a kink in that theory. “
“If Aleutian Islanders or their ancestors had somehow mixed with an Australasian group up north or made their way south to the Amazon, they’d leave genetic clues along the way. “It’s not a clear alternative,” argues Reich. “
“Three Amazonian groups—Suruí, Karitiana and Xavante—all had more in common with Australasians than any group in Siberia. “
“Both studies therefore suggest that the ancestry of the first Americans is a lot more complicated than scientists had envisioned.”
“There is a greater diversity of Native American founding populations than previously thought,” says Skoglund. “And these founding populations connect indigenous groups in far apart places of the world.”
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-n ... ans-links- amazon-indigenous-australians-180955976/?no-ist

[_tapirrider]

You may think Lamanite is derogatory but for millions of people who cherish the Book of Mormon it's not. It's a matter of long held beliefs. If you do not like LDS beliefs or find LDS beliefs offensive your on the wrong forum. People on the forum freely discuss LDS beliefs including those who are descendants of the Lamanites.

"millions of people who cherish the Book of Mormon" are not Plains Indians. Lamanite is a derogatory term to American Indians. You carry it even further, calling the plains Indians lazy:

Alma 22:28
Now, the more idle part of the Lamanites lived in the wilderness, and dwelt in tents;

The stories of the Lamanites are racist.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tim-giago ... 45534.html

Here are just a few more out of many other derogatory Book of Mormon references to American Indians:

1 Nephi 12:23
And it came to pass that I beheld, after they had dwindled in unbelief they became a dark, and loathsome, and a filthy people, full of idleness and all manner of abominations.

Alma 17:15
Thus they were a very indolent people, many of whom did worship idols, and the curse of God had fallen upon them because of the traditions of their fathers; notwithstanding the promises of the Lord were extended unto them on the conditions of repentance.

2 Nephi 1:11
Yea, he will bring other nations unto them, and he will give unto them power, and he will take away from them the lands of their possessions, and he will cause them to be scattered and smitten.

2 Nephi 5:
21 And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.
22 And thus saith the Lord God: I will cause that they shall be loathsome unto thy people, save they shall repent of their iniquities.
23 And cursed shall be the seed of him that mixeth with their seed; for they shall be cursed even with the same cursing. And the Lord spake it, and it was done.
24 And because of their cursing which was upon them they did become an idle people, full of mischief and subtlety, and did seek in the wilderness for beasts of prey.

I am not on the wrong forum. If you can't deal with the valid criticism of your ideas and actions, don't tell me to go somewhere else. Are you using Department of Defense equipment to preach your racism, trying to support it with pseudoarchaeology and racist scriptures?

[_Lemmie]

McKane, you're not even consistent with yourself within your last post, you are misreading very old resources, and Dr. Southerton has dealt completely with every bit of it in his blog entries titled the good, bad, and ugly of Meldrum.

If you can't deal with the valid criticism of your ideas and actions, don't tell me to go somewhere else. Are you using Department of Defense equipment to preach your racism, trying to support it with pseudoarchaeology and racist scriptures?

You haven't answered his question, especially in light of the supremacist sources you are relying on for your misinterpretations.

[_bomgeography]

This article dates to 2013

Nearly one-third of Native American genes come from west Eurasian peoples with ties to the Middle East and Europe
(“Great Surprise”—Native Americans Have West Eurasian Origins
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... -american- people-migration-siberia-genetics/)

The research that I have cited still stand. There is no research that contradicts the research done about haplo group x.

Look at the map there is no DNA evidence that Native American haplo group x ever stepped foot in Central Asia or siberia

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ha ... p_X_(mtDNA).PNG

[_bomgeography]

Tapir the Book of Mormon is history told from the perspective of the Nephites. The nephites and lamanites both committed atrocities.

Look at the history of the USA all kinds of terrible things have happened. Even in the last 30 to 40 years the world has seen atrocities and genocide. You can't expect the Book of Mormon being a historical book not mention the terrible things that happened on both sides of the nephites and lamanites.

Also the term dark and black skin refers to a spiritual appearance this type of terminology is used in the Old Testament. The nephites read and studied old testament at least the first five books.

[_Fence Sitter]

. The Nephites read and studied old testament at least the first five books.

The version of the old testament the purported Nephites studied didn't exist in the form they can be found in the Book of Mormon before 600BC.

How is that possible?

[_spotlight]

Also the term dark and black skin refers to a spiritual appearance this type of terminology is used in the Old Testament. The Nephites read and studied old testament at least the first five books.

The day of the Lamanites is nigh. For years they have been growing delightsome, and they are now becoming white and delightsome, as they were promised. In this picture of the twenty Lamanite missionaries, fifteen of the twenty were as light as Anglos; five were darker but equally delightsome. The children in the home placement program in Utah are often lighter than their brothers and sisters in the hogans on the reservation…. At one meeting a father and mother and their sixteen-year-old daughter were present, the little member girl-sixteen sitting between the dark father and mother, and it was evident she was several shades lighter than her parents on the same reservation, in the same Hogan, subject to the same sun and wind and weather. There was the doctor in a Utah city who for two years had had an Indian boy in his home who stated that he was some shades lighter than the younger brother just coming into the program from the reservation. These young members of the Church are changing to whiteness and delightsomeness. One white elder jokingly said that he and his companion were donating blood regularly to the hospital in the hope that the process might be accelerated.

Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, General Conference, Oct. 1960

When the prophets disagree, the ones currently under the controlling influence of the US government take precedence over earlier prophets.