Question for bomgeography about the flood

[_spotlight]

Well for the record Clark, I'm not seeing where you established private subjective experience/evidence as sufficient to prove the truth claims of the church on an individual basis.

[_Themis]

So let me repeat what I've said many times. The type of evidence you demand doesn't exist.

Well there is public evidence surrounding what you want to call private evidence. Fence Sitter brought up some good points about seeing things nor really there. I also brought up that we could predict with some good accuracy how a person will interpret these private evidences based on their world view. That's good evidence people are not accurately interpreting them.

[_spotlight]

So let me repeat what I've said many times. The type of evidence you demand doesn't exist.

Well there is public evidence surrounding what you want to call private evidence. Fence Sitter brought up some good points about seeing things nor really there. I also brought up that we could predict with some good accuracy how a person will interpret these private evidences based on their world view. That's good evidence people are not accurately interpreting them.

I guess CG doesn't believe the text of the Book of Mormon concerning the visit of JC to the Americas after his resurrection as that would constitute the existence of the type of evidence that is considered public.

[_Themis]

I guess CG doesn't believe the text of the Book of Mormon concerning the visit of JC to the Americas after his resurrection as that would constitute the existence of the type of evidence that is considered public.

Both the Bible and Book of Mormon have many stories of supernatural events happening in front of many people, and in many cases it included non-believers. Not anymore though. God today likes to really hide from us.

[_ClarkGoble]

I guess CG doesn't believe the text of the Book of Mormon concerning the visit of JC to the Americas after his resurrection as that would constitute the existence of the type of evidence that is considered public.

You have video of that? If not then it's not public evidence for us.

[Guest]

Both the Bible and Book of Mormon have many stories of supernatural events happening in front of many people, and in many cases it included non-believers. Not anymore though. God today likes to really hide from us.

Again unless it can be presented on demand it's not public evidence. I know of cases where spiritual events* happen in front of multiple people too. Does no good for people who were not there nor can it be repeated upon demand. So I'd still call that private experience since the people experiencing it relating it establishes nothing. It is evidence just for the people with the experience.

* I don't like the term supernatural since it implies a Humean view of divine action I think false. Of course not everyone using the term intends that ontology. But I usually avoid the term anyway.

[_ClarkGoble]

Well there is public evidence surrounding what you want to call private evidence. Fence Sitter brought up some good points about seeing things nor really there. I also brought up that we could predict with some good accuracy how a person will interpret these private evidences based on their world view. That's good evidence people are not accurately interpreting them.

I think I stated that experiences need to be interpreted and people can misinterpret them. So if you go back you'll see that I agreed with you there. But some experiences narrow the range of interpretation.

I thought my answer to the problem of mental illness was reasonable. If an experience is repeated and I can take reasonable step to try and discern hallucinations or mental illness then I think I'm justified in accepting the experience. If mental illness is such that I can't tell I'm thinking incorrectly consistently and no one else can then of course all bets are off. Not just for religious knowledge but any knowledge of anything.

[_Themis]

Again unless it can be presented on demand it's not public evidence. I know of cases where spiritual events* happen in front of multiple people too. Does no good for people who were not there nor can it be repeated upon demand.

I just wish people today had some kind of devices they carry around all the time that could record such an event.

[_ClarkGoble]

Well for the record Clark, I'm not seeing where you established private subjective experience/evidence as sufficient to prove the truth claims of the church on an individual basis.

I posted a link for a thought experiment of where a private experience was sufficient to prove a controversial claim for the individual but not others. To avoid the baggage of religion I gave an example I think is intrinsically false (spaceships from an other world violating FTL) I think the thought experiment does a good job showing the principle. The only real rejoinder was that the person in such a case ought think themselves mentally ill which I also replied to.

[_Themis]

I think I stated that experiences need to be interpreted and people can misinterpret them. So if you go back you'll see that I agreed with you there. But some experiences narrow the range of interpretation.

We can accurately predict how most will interpret these experiences. Interpreting the experiences as aliens was not likely a thousand years ago, but more likely angels and demons. Now we see a lot more aliens interacting with us. The point is private experiences like these are not reliable and should not be used as a way to believe objective claims about the universe like the Book of Mormon.

I thought my answer to the problem of mental illness was reasonable. If an experience is repeated and I can take reasonable step to try and discern hallucinations or mental illness then I think I'm justified in accepting the experience. If mental illness is such that I can't tell I'm thinking incorrectly consistently and no one else can then of course all bets are off. Not just for religious knowledge but any knowledge of anything.

One need not have a mental problem to experience things not really there. In fact humans have figured out ways to increase the likelihood of having great spiritual experiences like fasting or drugs.