Gunnar wrote:The fact that atheists can also subject themselves to self-delusion of various kinds does not help your case in the slightest, nor diminish the obviousness of the inherently self-delusionary character and intent of the referred to scriptures in The Book of Mormon. I sincerely maintain that I stopped believing in the truth claims of the LDS Church because I stopped deluding myself, and could no longer honestly or in good conscience overlook the damaging facts, contradictions and inconsistencies of those claims, and about the history of the Church--and even the abject absurdity of some of those claims.
We can all delude ourselves out of/into believing anything we want.
Themis wrote:Sure, but that doesn't put everyone on equal footing, or what they believe in.
As far as believing something it pretty much does. If you let me believe any silly thing I want, I'm more than happy to let you believe any silly thing you want.
The CCC wrote:As far as believing something it pretty much does. If you let me believe any silly thing I want, I'm more than happy to let you believe any silly thing you want.
You can believe what ever you like, but each belief is not on equal footing. Some have lots of evidence supporting them, some have little, and some have lots of evidence against.
Gunnar wrote:It's remarkable that no matter how many times this is pointed out to them, it never fazes them, and they still manage to maintain the conviction that, in their particular case, those subjective feelings really are authentic manifestations or confirmation of divinely revealed truth.
Unfortunately, yes. What a testament to human irrationality! I try hard to be on the lookout for any tendency to succumb to backfire effect myself. I think I am succeeding most of the time to avoid that tendency. I know there are once deeply held false beliefs that I have abandoned due to overwhelming contrary evidence.
No precept or claim is more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.
“If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you really make them think, they'll hate you.”
― Harlan Ellison
Gunnar wrote:The fact that atheists can also subject themselves to self-delusion of various kinds does not help your case in the slightest, nor diminish the obviousness of the inherently self-delusionary character and intent of the referred to scriptures in The Book of Mormon. I sincerely maintain that I stopped believing in the truth claims of the LDS Church because I stopped deluding myself, and could no longer honestly or in good conscience overlook the damaging facts, contradictions and inconsistencies of those claims, and about the history of the Church--and even the abject absurdity of some of those claims.
We can all delude ourselves out of/into believing anything we want.
That is the danger we should all be constantly on guard against, and why we must school and discipline ourselves to give primary weight to good, hard evidence, and not subjective faith and feelings, which is the stock and trade of charlatanry -- especially religious charlatanry.
No precept or claim is more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.
“If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you really make them think, they'll hate you.”
― Harlan Ellison
Gunnar wrote:Unfortunately, yes. What a testament to human irrationality! I try hard to be on the lookout for any tendency to succumb to backfire effect myself. I think I am succeeding most of the time to avoid that tendency. I know there are once deeply held false beliefs that I have abandoned due to overwhelming contrary evidence.
I don't have a lot of important beliefs to cling to any more. At least not ones about Objective information about the universe. I don't need God to exist or not exist. I don't need Joseph Smith to have seen or not seen God.
Themis wrote: You can believe what ever you like, but each belief is not on equal footing. Some have lots of evidence supporting them, some have little, and some have lots of evidence against.
I don't have a problem with belief. Evidence is a different discussion.
Themis wrote: You can believe what ever you like, but each belief is not on equal footing. Some have lots of evidence supporting them, some have little, and some have lots of evidence against.
I don't have a problem with belief. Evidence is a different discussion.
They should be very related, but you admit, for you, they are not.
