The Mystery of Godliness

[_bomgeography]

I don't know God or Nephi does not say why

[_tapirrider]

I don't know God or Nephi does not say why

But you do concur then that God's wrath was on them? The Book of Mormon clearly explains why in many other verses. In simplest terms, the Book of Mormon teaches that they were wicked. Would you like me to give you those verses?

[_bomgeography]

The nephites and lamanites were at times righteous and wicked. Same as any civilization throughout the history of the world.

If you look at the Bible the same can be said for the Hebrews/Israelites
God calling his people wicked or righteous is nothing new.

[_tapirrider]

The Nephites and Lamanites were at times righteous and wicked. Same as any civilization throughout the history of the world.

If you look at the Bible the same can be said for the Hebrews/Israelites
God calling his people wicked or righteous is nothing new.

Do you literally believe that American Indians were so wicked at the time of the arrival of Europeans that they were deserving of God's wrath?

[_bomgeography]

I can only go by what the scriptures say I can not judge other people not to mention an entire civilization or God. My personal opinion of what happened is that it was a tragedy and I wish it never would have happened. I don't think that the indigenous people of the Americas deserved what happened to them in anyway.

The worlds history is full of wicked tragic genocides, persecution, murder and corruption. As well as times of peace and prosperity.

[_tapirrider]

I can only go by what the scriptures say I can not judge other people not to mention an entire civilization or God. My personal opinion of what happened is that it was a tragedy and I wish it never would have happened. I don't think that the indigenous people of the Americas deserved what happened to them in anyway.

The worlds history is full of wicked tragic genocides, persecution, murder and corruption. As well as times of peace and prosperity.

The Book of Mormon verses I have discussed with you clearly indicate that God's wrath was on the American Indians at the time of the European arrival and colonization of America. I am not asking you to judge other people, I am asking if you believe those scriptures to be true. I am asking you what you think was the reason for God's wrath on the Indians. The scriptures that you say you go by make all of this very clear so I am a little puzzled about why you are hesitant to respond with the teachings of your church.

It seems to me that you do not understand what the Book of Mormon says and what Joseph Smith and other LDS prophets and apostles have taught about this matter. It could also be that your personal opinion is not in line with LDS doctrine on this subject. Or perhaps you say "I can not judge other people" because you do know the racism being taught in those verses and you are trying to distance yourself from it even though you know that you can't as long as you believe that the Book of Mormon is real.

[_bomgeography]

From what I can tell Gods wrath has been on every civilization mentioned in the Bible and Book of Mormon.

I can't give you specifics as to why gods wrath was on the seed of Lehi because I'm not god. Nephi Revelation gives no specifics. Your opinion of the Book of Mormon is just that an opinion. Millions of people disagree with your opinion.

[_tapirrider]

From what I can tell Gods wrath has been on every civilization mentioned in the Bible and Book of Mormon.

I can't give you specifics as to why gods wrath was on the seed of Lehi because I'm not god. Nephi Revelation gives no specifics. Your opinion of the Book of Mormon is just that an opinion. Millions of people disagree with your opinion.

You can't give me specifics as to why God's wrath was on the American Indians? I am not asking you to tell me what God thinks. You can easily answer by using the scriptures that you told me you go by.

Go to Mormon Chapter 5
9 And also that a knowledge of these things must come unto the remnant of these people, and also unto the Gentiles, who the Lord hath said should scatter this people, and this people should be counted as naught among them—therefore I write a small abridgment, daring not to give a full account of the things which I have seen, because of the commandment which I have received, and also that ye might not have too great sorrow because of the wickedness of this people.

bofmgeography, you told me "My personal opinion of what happened is that it was a tragedy and I wish it never would have happened. I don't think that the indigenous people of the Americas deserved what happened to them in anyway." But Mormon tells you not to have too great a sorrow for them because they were wicked. In further verses of that same chapter Mormon makes it clear that the golden plates would have to come to the gentiles because the Indians were too wicked (verse 12). Verses 15-19 tell why God's wrath was on them. Have you not read this? Verse 19 says why the Europeans were given the land.

I can give you much more, all from the Book of Mormon and can back up how it is to be interpreted with how it is taught in official LDS curriculum. I can back it up with words of Joseph Smith. I do not accept that you cannot tell me why God's wrath was on the Indians. It is a fundamental teaching of the LDS church. And it is a racist teaching. If you reject those scriptures, then tell me so so that I will understand that I am not having a discussion with a believing member of the LDS church.

As for my opinion, I have told you many times that I do not believe that the Book of Mormon is real. I do not believe that Lehi existed, and I do not believe that American Indians are from his seed. But I do state that those teachings we are discussing are racist and have no place in the 21st Century. It is not just my opinion that they are racist. The Book of Mormon is the only scripture in the world that specifically identifies American Indians and teaches that God's wrath was on them because they were wicked at the time of the arrival of Europeans, and that God's spirit was with the Europeans. No other scripture in the world has canonized the Christian Doctrine of Discovery and Manifest Destiny. The Book of Mormon stands alone in making those racist ideas and policies of the past into canonized scripture.

[Guest]

Let me ask you a question god condemned the tribe of Judah at times for being wicked. Is the Bible racist and anti Semitic because at times god condemns the hebrews for being wicked.

[_Maksutov]

Let me ask you a question god condemned the tribe of Judah at times for being wicked. Is the Bible racist and anti Semitic because at time god condemns the hebrews for being wicked.

Trying to change the subject, McKane? Because you're busted. Own up to your racism before trying to cast it onto others. Also pretty amusing for you to bring up antiSemitism in light of your association with a proclaimed Nazi who went out of his way to terrorize holocaust survivors.