Benchmarking the Q15's performance...

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
_grindael
_Emeritus
Posts: 6791
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:15 am

Re: Benchmarking the Q15's performance...

Post by _grindael »

Seventh Day Adventists. Cool folks. I'm sure God loves them ...

But what does Mormonism teach?

"We talk about Christianity, but it is a perfect pack of nonsense . . . Myself and hundreds of the Elders around me have seen its pomp, parade, and glory; and what is it? It is a sounding brass and a tinkling symbol; it is as corrupt as hell; and the Devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century," ("Prophet" John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, 1858, p. 167).


And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth" (1 Nephi 14:10).

"And when the day cometh that the wrath of God is poured out upon the mother of harlots, which is the great and abominable church of all the earth, whose foundation is the devil, then, at that day, the work of the Father shall commence. . ." (1 Nephi. 14:17).


"My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right — and which I should join. I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong, and the personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in His sight: that those professors were all corrupt . . ." (Joseph Smith, History of the Church, vol. 1, p. 5-6).


“That year of grace, 1820, like the 1,400 years which preceded it, was one in which darkness covered the earth and gross darkness the minds of the people. It was a day of spiritual darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains…. That gospel preached by Paul, and for which Peter died, was no longer proclaimed from the pulpits of Christendom. In short, apostasy reigned supreme; it was universal, complete, all pervading. The religion of the lowly Nazarene was nowhere to be found. All sects, parties, and denominations had gone astray. Satan rejoiced and his angels laughed. Such were the social and religious conditions of the day.” Bruce R. McConkie, “Once or Twice in a Thousand Years,” Ensign, Nov. 1975.


“Joseph was honest and sincere, devout and intelligent. He had been honestly seeking the true church of God. The large number of so-called Christian sects and the extreme diversity of their teachings demonstrated the confusion that existed in the religious world.” Doyle L. Green, “April 6, 1830: The Day the Church Was Organized,” Ensign, Jan. 1971.


“Latter-day Saints hardly need to be told that the father of all apostasy is Satan.” Andrew C. Skinner, “Apostasy, Restoration, and Lessons in Faith,” Ensign, Dec. 1995.


“I would like to mention one other thing that I think is a creed that is ‘an abomination in the sight of God,’ and I shall mention it but briefly…. There is not time to go into a lot of detail, but their catechism says that their god has ‘no body; he has no parts; he has no passions.’ That means that he has no eyes; he cannot see. He has no ears; he cannot hear your prayers. He has no voice; he cannot speak a word to the prophets. Some of them even say ‘he sits on the top of a topless throne.’ How absurd! To me it seems that their description of the god that they believe in is about the best description of nothing that can be written…. Moses knew that this condition would prevail, because when he went to lead the children of Israel into the promised land, he told them that they would not remain there long but that they would be scattered among the nations and ‘there ye shall serve gods, the work of men’s hands, wood and stone, which neither see, nor hear, nor eat, nor smell.’ (Deut. 4:28.) That is exactly the kind of a god the whole Christian world was worshiping when Joseph Smith had that glorious vision which revealed the true and living God.” LeGrand Richards, “Strange Creeds of Christendom,” Ensign, Jan. 1973.


God is love, power, and splendor—and God is a mystery. His ways are far beyond us, but He still reaches out to us. God is infinite yet intimate, three yet one, all-knowing yet all-forgiving. We will spend eternity cherishing an ever-deepening relationship with God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. (Who is God? Seventh Day Adventists)

“Many men say there is one God; the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are only one God. I say that is a strange God anyhow—three in one, and one in three! It is a curious organization…. All are to be crammed into one God, according to sectarianism. It would make the biggest God in all the world. He would be a wonderfully big God—he would be a giant or a monster” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 372).
Riding on a speeding train; trapped inside a revolving door;
Lost in the riddle of a quatrain; Stuck in an elevator between floors.
One focal point in a random world can change your direction:
One step where events converge may alter your perception.
_malkie
_Emeritus
Posts: 2663
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:03 pm

Re: Benchmarking the Q15's performance...

Post by _malkie »

I have a question wrote:Compare and contrast...

A few interesting stats:

Healthcare Ministry
Hospitals and Sanitariums 175
Nursing Homes and Retirement Centers 140
Clinics and Dispensaries 385
Orphanages and Children’s Homes 29
Airplanes and Medical Launches 7
Outpatient Visits over 18,540,278

Adventist Development and Relief Agency (ADRA)
Countries and Areas of the World Where ADRA is Present over 130
Total Projects Funded 7,733
Beneficiaries of Projects 14,787,780
Funds for Program Support and Implementation in excess of US$180,000,000
NOMinal member

Maksutov: "... if you give someone else the means to always push your buttons, you're lost."
_mentalgymnast
_Emeritus
Posts: 8574
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 9:39 pm

Re: Benchmarking the Q15's performance...

Post by _mentalgymnast »

malkie wrote:
I have a question wrote:Compare and contrast...

A few interesting stats:

Healthcare Ministry
Hospitals and Sanitariums 175
Nursing Homes and Retirement Centers 140
Clinics and Dispensaries 385
Orphanages and Children’s Homes 29
Airplanes and Medical Launches 7
Outpatient Visits over 18,540,278

Adventist Development and Relief Agency (ADRA)
Countries and Areas of the World Where ADRA is Present over 130
Total Projects Funded 7,733
Beneficiaries of Projects 14,787,780
Funds for Program Support and Implementation in excess of US$180,000,000


That's good stuff, right?

It goes to show...if you believe that God is in and through all (or even if you don't)...that the Adventists along with many other religious institutions/organizations are doing God's work and/or or the work of relieving pain/suffering/unhappiness throughout the world. This thread brings to light the scripture in Matt. 12:30 and vs. 33

He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters abroad.

Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or else make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for a tree is known by its fruit.


Ultimately that which is light and that which is good is a manifestation of God in and through all things. It's the fruit. Folks that are going about "gathering with me"...accomplishing good works and bringing forth good fruit... are in the 'fold' of God and branches on the 'tree'. They may not always know who or what the master of the vineyard is all about, but that may not be critical to the mission/purpose of God.

Go Adventists! Go Catholics! Go________________________. Do good to others. Push and pay forward faith/conscience/goodness/morality, etc.

And the CofJCofLDS and its leaders/members will be right there with you. Sometimes leading, sometimes following your good works/example.

Regards,
MG
_malkie
_Emeritus
Posts: 2663
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:03 pm

Re: Benchmarking the Q15's performance...

Post by _malkie »

So when LDS missionaries come across people who are already producing good fruit, regardless of religion or lack thereof, they just congratulate them and move on?

If it ain't broke, don't "fix" it.
NOMinal member

Maksutov: "... if you give someone else the means to always push your buttons, you're lost."
_mentalgymnast
_Emeritus
Posts: 8574
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 9:39 pm

Re: Benchmarking the Q15's performance...

Post by _mentalgymnast »

malkie wrote:So when LDS missionaries come across people who are already producing good fruit, regardless of religion or lack thereof, they just congratulate them and move on?

If it ain't broke, don't "fix" it.


Basically. They share the message. People either take it or leave it. God will judge/determine where their heart/mind are at and whether or not they are in the 'right place' and/or will be in the right place in the afterlife. I think the LDS doctrine of multiple heavens/kingdoms plays right into what we see all around us.

I agree with you, in many cases "It ain't broke." You don't have to look far to see that.

Regards,
MG
_I have a question
_Emeritus
Posts: 9749
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2015 8:01 am

Re: Benchmarking the Q15's performance...

Post by _I have a question »

malkie wrote:So when LDS missionaries come across people who are already producing good fruit, regardless of religion or lack thereof, they just congratulate them and move on?

If it ain't broke, don't "fix" it.



Dallin H. Oaks to the youth of the Church.
Our first responsibility and purpose is to testify of Jesus Christ to a world that suffers to know of His divine mission. As my response to that great responsibility, I will speak about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the only true and living Church. In doing so I know I speak against the powerful tide of what is called “political correctness.”

The fashionable opinion of this age is that all churches are true. In truth, the idea that all churches are the same is the doctrine of the anti-Christ, illustrated by the Book of Mormon account of Korihor (see Alma 30). That account was given to teach us a vital lesson in our day.
Oaks
“When we are confronted with evidence that challenges our deeply held beliefs we are more likely to reframe the evidence than we are to alter our beliefs. We simply invent new reasons, new justifications, new explanations. Sometimes we ignore the evidence altogether.” (Mathew Syed 'Black Box Thinking')
_Doctor CamNC4Me
_Emeritus
Posts: 21663
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:02 am

Re: Benchmarking the Q15's performance...

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

Mental Gymnast is in apostasy and openly preaching heresy. On doctrine it's no wonder he usually keeps his mouth shut when he's not talking about himself or moaning about others.

- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
_mentalgymnast
_Emeritus
Posts: 8574
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 9:39 pm

Re: Benchmarking the Q15's performance...

Post by _mentalgymnast »

I have a question wrote:
malkie wrote:So when LDS missionaries come across people who are already producing good fruit, regardless of religion or lack thereof, they just congratulate them and move on?

If it ain't broke, don't "fix" it.



Dallin H. Oaks to the youth of the Church.
Our first responsibility and purpose is to testify of Jesus Christ to a world that suffers to know of His divine mission. As my response to that great responsibility, I will speak about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the only true and living Church. In doing so I know I speak against the powerful tide of what is called “political correctness.”

The fashionable opinion of this age is that all churches are true. In truth, the idea that all churches are the same is the doctrine of the anti-Christ, illustrated by the Book of Mormon account of Korihor (see Alma 30). That account was given to teach us a vital lesson in our day.
Oaks


DoctorCam: Mental Gymnast is in apostasy and openly preaching heresy.


Notice that I didn't say that we aren't each accountable for and/or live with the choices/direction(s) that we choose. And when malkie and I are both saying, "If it ain't broke, why fix it(?)"...I personally think that we should leave that judgement to others (God maybe? :wink: ) rather than being the judge, jury, and executioners.

The comment/accusation from DoctorCam is just another example of 'making stuff up'. See my sig line and link. Find the one (1-7) that fits.

The Prophet Joseph said:
A man filled with the love of God, is not content with blessing his family alone, but ranges through the whole world, anxious to bless the whole human race. This has been your [the Twelve in England] feeling, and caused you to forego the pleasures of home, that you might be a blessing to others, who are candidates for [eternal life], but strangers to truth; and for so doing, I pray that heaven's choicest blessings may rest upon you.
-------------------
A man is saved no faster than he gets knowledge.
-------------------
That which is wrong under one circumstance, may be, and often is, right under another.
-------------------
Our heavenly Father is more liberal in His views, and boundless in His mercies and blessings, than we are ready to believe or receive.
-------------------
One of the grand fundamental principles of Mormonism is to receive truth, let it come from whence it may.
-------------------
I don't blame any one for not believing my history. If I had not experienced what I have, I could not have believed it myself.
-------------------
We deem it a just principle, and it is one the force of which we believe ought to be duly considered by every individual, that all men are created equal, and that all have the privilege of thinking for themselves upon all matters relative to conscience. Consequently, then, we are not disposed, had we the power, to deprive anyone from exercising that free independence of mind which heaven has so graciously bestowed upon the human family as one of its choicest gifts.
-------------------
We ought always to be aware of those prejudices which sometimes so strongly present themselves and are so congenial to human nature against our neighbors, friends, and brethren of the world who choose to differ with us in opinion and in matters of faith. Our religion is between us and our God. Their religion is between them and their God. There is a tie from God that should be exercised toward those of our faith who walk uprightly. . . . It is without prejudice, but gives scope to the mind, which enables us to conduct ourselves with greater liberality toward all others that are not of our faith than what they exercise toward one another. These principles approximate nearer to the mind of God because they are like God or godlike.
-------------------
Be assured, sir, that I have the most liberal sentiments and feelings of charity towards all sects, parties, and denominations, and the rights and liberties of conscience I hold most sacred and dear, and despise no man for differing with me in matters of opinion.
-------------------
I believe that a religion is instituted of God and that men are amenable to him and to him only for the exercise of it unless their religious opinion prompts them to infringe upon the rights and liberty of others. But I do not believe that human law has a right to interfere in prescribing rules of worship to bind the consciences of men nor dictate forms for public or private devotion.
-------------------
We claim the privilege of worshipping Almighty God according to the dictates of our conscience, and allow all men the same privilege; let them worship how, where, or what they may.
-------------------
For all men are, or ought to be, free, possessing unalienable rights and the high and noble qualifications of the laws of nature and of self-preservation; to think and act, and say as they please...

From the D&C
“All who have died without a knowledge of this gospel, who would have received it if they had been permitted to tarry, shall be heirs of the celestial kingdom of God; also all that shall die henceforth without a knowledge of it, who would have received it with all their hearts, shall be heirs of that kingdom; for I, the Lord, will judge all men according to their works, according to the desire of their hearts.
( Doctrine and Covenants 137:7. )


I challenge anyone to go back to my post time stamped:Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:18 pm...on this thread and demonstrate, after having read the quotes I've taken the time to post from Joseph Smith, and say that I "am in apostasy". If you do, you are, as is par for the course, 'making stuff up'.

What crock. I would expect more from you Doc. Get your game on and play fair, huh? The little 'one liners' you and others are wont to throw out there are so transparently false and/or inaccurate.

As I've mentioned to a couple of others recently...CONTEXT. Look at the bigger picture. If nothing else, look/imagine how BIG God must be as he looks over all His works here on the earth.

It seems as though some folks want to put God in a box and put limitations on Him, and when He doesn't conform to their dictates and/or their conscience(Joseph struggled with the saints in his day concerning the same issue) they break like glass.

I say, open up your minds and hearts to a BIGGER God and a more expansive picture. Some of the views I read around here are centered around one quote here or one quote there to the exclusion of everything that has been said and/or done in the composite. And again...as I said a number of times on another thread or two recently... much of what is said/written in these parts of the 'web' is either making stuff up or taking things out of context and creating false narratives.

Regards,
MG
Last edited by Guest on Sat Mar 11, 2017 7:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
_mentalgymnast
_Emeritus
Posts: 8574
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 9:39 pm

Re: Benchmarking the Q15's performance...

Post by _mentalgymnast »

mentalgymnast wrote:I challenge anyone to go back to my post time stamped:Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:18 pm...on this thread and demonstrate, after having read the quotes I've taken the time to post from Joseph Smith, and say that I "am in apostasy". If you do, you are, as is par for the course, 'making stuff up'.


Oh, another earlier...well, actually chronologically later) post(on this thread):

Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:24 pm

Fuller context. :smile:

Regards,
MG
Last edited by Guest on Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
_grindael
_Emeritus
Posts: 6791
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:15 am

Re: Benchmarking the Q15's performance...

Post by _grindael »

Mormonism teaches that there are TWO churches ONLY. Theirs, (which is true) and OTHERS which are inspired by and follow SATAN. There is no way to get around this, and selectively quoting Joseph Smith doesn't change this FACT. Again here is the evidence:

"We talk about Christianity, but it is a perfect pack of nonsense . . . Myself and hundreds of the Elders around me have seen its pomp, parade, and glory; and what is it? It is a sounding brass and a tinkling symbol; it is as corrupt as hell; and the Devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century, (This includes the Seventh Day Adventists, Catholics, etc.) " ("Prophet" John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, 1858, p. 167).

And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth" (1 Nephi 14:10).

"And when the day cometh that the wrath of God is poured out upon the mother of harlots, which is the great and abominable church of all the earth, whose foundation is the devil, then, at that day, the work of the Father shall commence. . ." (1 Nephi. 14:17).


"My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right — and which I should join. I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong, and the personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in His sight: that those professors were all corrupt . . ." (Joseph Smith, History of the Church, vol. 1, p. 5-6).


“That year of grace, 1820, like the 1,400 years which preceded it, was one in which darkness covered the earth and gross darkness the minds of the people. It was a day of spiritual darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains…. That gospel preached by Paul, and for which Peter died, was no longer proclaimed from the pulpits of Christendom. In short, apostasy reigned supreme; it was universal, complete, all pervading. The religion of the lowly Nazarene was nowhere to be found. All sects, parties, and denominations had gone astray. Satan rejoiced and his angels laughed. Such were the social and religious conditions of the day.” Bruce R. McConkie, “Once or Twice in a Thousand Years,” Ensign, Nov. 1975.


“Joseph was honest and sincere, devout and intelligent. He had been honestly seeking the true church of God. The large number of so-called Christian sects and the extreme diversity of their teachings demonstrated the confusion that existed in the religious world.” Doyle L. Green, “April 6, 1830: The Day the Church Was Organized,” Ensign, Jan. 1971.


“Latter-day Saints hardly need to be told that the father of all apostasy is Satan.” Andrew C. Skinner, “Apostasy, Restoration, and Lessons in Faith,” Ensign, Dec. 1995.


“I would like to mention one other thing that I think is a creed that is ‘an abomination in the sight of God,’ and I shall mention it but briefly…. There is not time to go into a lot of detail, but their catechism says that their god has ‘no body; he has no parts; he has no passions.’ That means that he has no eyes; he cannot see. He has no ears; he cannot hear your prayers. He has no voice; he cannot speak a word to the prophets. Some of them even say ‘he sits on the top of a topless throne.’ How absurd! To me it seems that their description of the god that they believe in is about the best description of nothing that can be written…. Moses knew that this condition would prevail, because when he went to lead the children of Israel into the promised land, he told them that they would not remain there long but that they would be scattered among the nations and ‘there ye shall serve gods, the work of men’s hands, wood and stone, which neither see, nor hear, nor eat, nor smell.’ (Deut. 4:28.) That is exactly the kind of a god the whole Christian world was worshiping when Joseph Smith had that glorious vision which revealed the true and living God.” LeGrand Richards, “Strange Creeds of Christendom,” Ensign, Jan. 1973.


God is love, power, and splendor—and God is a mystery. His ways are far beyond us, but He still reaches out to us. God is infinite yet intimate, three yet one, all-knowing yet all-forgiving. We will spend eternity cherishing an ever-deepening relationship with God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. (Who is God? Seventh Day Adventists)

“Many men say there is one God; the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are only one God. I say that is a strange God anyhow—three in one, and one in three! It is a curious organization…. All are to be crammed into one God, according to sectarianism. It would make the biggest God in all the world. He would be a wonderfully big God—he would be a giant or a monster” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 372).
Riding on a speeding train; trapped inside a revolving door;
Lost in the riddle of a quatrain; Stuck in an elevator between floors.
One focal point in a random world can change your direction:
One step where events converge may alter your perception.
Post Reply