Benchmarking the Q15's performance...

[_grindael]

I think the quotes from Joseph Smith that I've posted support my POV.

No, they don't. And you are really too ignorant to know why.

[Guest]

Full quote:

A man is saved no faster than he gets knowledge for if he does not get knowledge he will be brought into captivity by some evil power in the other world as evil spirits will have more knowlede & consequently more power than many men who are on the earth. hence it needs Revelation to assist us & give us knowledge of the things of God. What is the reason that the Priest of the day do not get Revelation They ask ownly to consume it upon their lust their hearts are corrupt & they cloke their iniquity by saying that their is no more Revelations But if any Revelations are given of God they are universally opposed by the priest & christendom at large for it reveals their wickedness & abominations many other remarks of interest were made by the speaker I truly felt in my own heart that it was a profitable meeting. (Joseph Smith, April 10, 1842).

THIS IS FAR FROM "ALL INCLUSIVE" or showing that God embraces anything other than Mormonism. In other words GET YOUR KNOWLEDGE "REVELATION" FROM THE Mormons.

And who does Smith condemn here? Everyone else! It is easy to isolate quotes to make them look like what you want them to. This is why you are so freaking ignorant.

Shall I continue?

[_grindael]

Be assured, sir, that I have the most liberal sentiments and feelings of charity towards all sects, parties, and denominations, and the rights and liberties of conscience I hold most sacred and dear, and despise no man for differing with me in matters of opinion.

This is from a letter Jo wrote to Isaac Galland in 1840, a person he was trying to impress and buy land from. But in that letter he also wrote this:

We believe that no man can administer salvation through the gospel, to the souls of men, in the name of Jesus Christ, except he is authorized from God, by revelation, or by being ordained by some one whom God hath sent by revelation, as it is written by Paul, Romans 10:14, "and how shall they believe in him, of whom, they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? and how shall they preach, except they be sent?" and I will ask, how can they be sent without a revelation, or some other visible display of the manifestation of God. And again, Hebrews, 5:4, "And no man taketh this honor unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron."-And I would ask, how was Aaron called, but by revelation?

Again, this EXCLUDES all others. Smith goes on and on about how Mormons embrace all "truth" where ever they can find it, but he also says that they can reject whatever they please that doesn't mesh with what they (actually Smith) teach. (That Mormonism was the ONLY true church and had the ONLY authorization from God). According to his close friend Benjamin F. Johnson:

And yet, although so social and even convival [size] at times, he [Joseph Smith] would allow no arrogance or undue liberties. Criticisms, even by his associates, were rarely acceptable. Contradictions would arouse in him the lion aht once. By no one of his fellows would he be superceded. In the early days at Kirtland, and elsewhere, one or another of his associates were more than once, for their impudence, helped from the congregation by his foot.... He soundly thrashed his brother William....(Benjamin F. Johnson, Letter, 1903)

Again, you quote a small fraction of what he said, give no context and twist it to your own ends.

[_grindael]

That which is wrong under one circumstance, may be, and often is, right under another.

Really? You are going to try and use this? This is from Smith's "Happiness" letter to Nancy Rigdon.

"Happiness is the object and design of our existence, and will be the end thereof, if we pursue the path that leads to it; and this path is virtue, uprightness, faithfulness, holiness, and keeping all the commandments of God; but we cannot keep ALL the commandments without first knowing them, and we cannot expect to KNOW ALL, or more than we now know, unless we comply with or keep those we have ALREADY RECEIVED! That which is wrong under one circumstance, may be, and often is, right under another. God said, Thou shalt not kill; at another time he said, Thou shalt utterly destroy. This is the principle on which the government of Heaven is conducted, by REVELATION adapted to the circumstances in which the children of the kingdom are placed. Whatever God requires is right, NO MATTER WHAT IT IS, although we may not see the reason thereof till long after the events transpire. If we seek first the kingdom of God, all good things will be added. So with Solomon; first he asked wisdom, and God gave it him, and with it EVERY DESIRE OF HIS HEART; even things which might be considered ABOMINABLE [polygamy] to all who understand the order of Heaven ONLY IN PART, but which, in reality, were right, because God gave and sanctioned BY SPECIAL REVELATION. A parent may whip a child, and justly too, because he stole an apple; whereas, if the child had asked for the apple, and the parent had given it, the child would have eaten it with a better appetite; there would have been no stripes; all the pleasures of the apple would have been secured, all the misery of stealing lost. This principle will justly apply to all of God's dealings with his children. Every thing that God gives us is lawful and right, and it is proper that we should ENJOY his gifts and blessings, WHENEVER AND WHEREVER he is disposed to bestow; but if we should seize upon those same blessings and enjoyments without law, without REVELATION, without COMMANDMENT, those blessings and enjoyments would prove cursings and vexations in the end, and we should have to lie down in sorrow and wailings of everlasting regret. But in obedience there is joy and peace unspotted, unalloyed; and as God has designed our happiness, the happiness of all his creatures, he never has, he never will, institute an ordinance or give a commandment to his people that is not calculated in its nature to promote that happiness which he has designed, and which will not end in the greatest amount of good and glory to those who become the recipients of his law and ordinances. Blessings offered, but rejected, are no longer blessings, but become like the talent hid in the earth BY THE WICKED AND SLOTHFUL SERVANT; the proffered good returns to the giver; the blessing is bestowed on those who will receive, and occupy; for unto him that hath shall be given, and he shall have ABUNDANTLY, but unto him that hath not, or will not receive, shall be taken away that which he hath, or might have had.

"'Be wise to-day; 'tis madness to defer!
Next day the fatal precedent may plead;
Thus on till wisdom is pushed out of time,' into eternity.

"Our Heavenly Father is more liberal in his views, and boundless in his mercies and blessings, than we are ready to believe or receive, and, at the same time, is more terrible to the workers of iniquity, more awful in the executions of his punishments, and more ready to detect every false way than we are apt to suppose him to be; he will be inquired of by his children; he says, Ask and ye SHALL RECEIVE, seek and ye SHALL FIND; but, if ye will take that which is not your own, or which I have not given you, you shall be rewarded according to your deeds; but no good thing will I withhold from them who walk uprightly before me, and do my will in all things; who will listen to my voice and to the voice of MY SERVANT WHOM I HAVE SENT; for I delight in those who seek diligently to know my precepts, and abide by the laws of my kingdom; for ALL THINGS SHALL BE MADE KNOWN UNTO THEM IN MINE OWN DUE TIME, and in the end THEY SHALL HAVE JOY."

The original, of which the above is a literal copy, in the handwriting of Dr. Richards, is now in my [Dr. Bennett's] possession. It was handed me by Colonel F. M. Higbee, in the presence of General George W. Robinson. (John C. Bennett, The History of the Saints; or, An Expose of Joe Smith and Mormonism [Boston: Leland & Whiting, 1842]: 243–245; LDS History of the Church 5:134–136)

[_grindael]

I can do this all day.

[_Lemmie]

I can do this all day.

You'd think he would know better by now, but apparently not. His source was a compendium of (out of context) quotes.
there's a difference between knowing your subject matter and just being a contrarian. He certainly has the latter down to a very dark art.

[_grindael]

The way I see it is that God is looking out for the earth and its people as a whole...including SDA's. Afterall, he created it and is running the show. All folks around the world aren't all 'eating off the same plate'. But they are all being serviced in one way or another. And if they're not being serviced adequately by our standards, God will make do with what is available and make things right somewhere/somehow.

You see, this is where modern Mormons go off the rails. According to Mormon PROPHETS, God did "make things right" by providing Mormonism, or "the restored gospel". If one does not bow down to that AUTHORITY, one then is part of SATAN's Church. There is no inbetween, no tolerance for other faiths, because they are APOSTATE.

This is a completely different issue than general RELIGIOUS TOLERANCE. What newage Mormon apologists try and do is conflate the two issues. In Mormon THEOLOGY, there is no tolerance for any other religions. There is only ONE "true" church, one way and only ONE that has any "AUTHORITY". All the others are of "Satan". The Book of Mormon is very clear on this point.

In Mormonism God isn't going to "make due" with other religions. His solution was to "restore" the "true" gospel. He even takes this out of context:

He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters abroad.

This was not about making "trees" good, it was about Jesus being accused of driving out evil spirits by the power of the Devil.

Ultimately that which is light and that which is good is a manifestation of God in and through all things. It's the fruit. Folks that are going about "gathering with me"...accomplishing good works and bringing forth good fruit... are in the 'fold' of God and branches on the 'tree'. They may not always know who or what the master of the vineyard is all about, but that may not be critical to the mission/purpose of God.

WRONG. According to Mormons, it is critical. Otherwise, Jesus would not have said this:

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

FAIRMORMON:

Based on the belief in the “priesthood of all believers,” a Protestant minister often feels that the Bible (or God) has called him to work. But Christ made it clear that this is not the way it works. He said, “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity” (Matthew 7:21-24).

Only a believer would prophecy in the name of Christ or, in his name, cast out devils. Yet the Savior said that he would cast out those he never knew. It is wrong to profess to do something in the name of Christ when one does not have the authority to do so. Note that Christ said that there would be “many” who would claim to have performed good works in his name who would be rejected, so this is not just an occasional person.

As for the atonement argument, one just has to read the 3rd article of faith:

We believe that through the atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.

What "gospel"? The Mormon gospel.