zerinus wrote:Where does it say in there that Junia was either a woman, or an Apostle (in the sense of the original 12 Apostles?) Neither is implied in that statement. The implication is that Junia was a man, and possibly one of the "seventies" (who were also in a certain sense called "apostles" ---i.e. sent)....
.....Origen certainly did not say that Junia was a man; and I have no reason to assume that the rest of your citations accurately represent what you claim. If you are blatantly wrong about Origen, what reason do I have to assume that you are right about the rest?
Oh please. Asked and answered, zerinus. You had your ass handed to you, there is nothing more to say.
MsJack wrote:I'm putting together a post for my blog because I'm tired of having these same dumb arguments with people over and over again, I'll post the link when I'm done.
zerinus wrote:Good. I hope you will include this post in it as well.
You mean her part? I'm sure she will. Your part? Not a chance.
Jersey Girl wrote:Some day, when it's rainy AF again, would you mind doing a blog post on Paul/women speaking in church? I'd really appreciate it.
I actually have an unfinished draft for that in my blog queue. I'll try to wrap it up sometime soon.
If you look at the "God's Word to Women" tab on my site, you'll see there is a list of passages I want to do posts on.
Thank goodness, because you are far more equipped than I to shine a light on what is used as a stand alone verse of scripture all too often taken out of the cultural context in which it was written and used as a well worn red flag against Christianity today!
I look forward to it! Thank you, lady!
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
zerinus wrote:Where does it say in there that Junia was either a woman, or an Apostle (in the sense of the original 12 Apostles?) Neither is implied in that statement. The implication is that Junia was a man, and possibly one of the "seventies" (who were also in a certain sense called "apostles" ---i.e. sent).
As I believe Chap pointed out, it is implied by the language in which it was written. I encourage you to study the both the culture and language of the Bible, both Old Testament and New Testament. There you will discover that not everything is what you think it is on it's face when viewed through the lends of contemporary interpretations.
It is a fascinating journey to take, z.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
zerinus wrote:The implication is that Junia was a man, and possibly one of the "seventies" (who were also in a certain sense called "apostles" ---i.e. sent).
The vast majority of the Origen-via-Rufinus manuscripts have "Junia" as feminine, so I have no idea why you think manhood is being implied anywhere.
zerinus wrote:Origen certainly did not say that Junia was a man;
I agree.
zerinus wrote:Good. I hope you will include this post in it as well.
Nah, you're too small-potatoes in the world of "trying to give Junia a penis" to mention.
"It seems to me that these women were the head (κεφάλαιον) of the church which was at Philippi." ~ John Chrysostom, Homilies on Philippians 13
MsJack wrote:And here is a full list of commentators from the first ~1100 years of Christian history who said Junia was a woman (though some used the variant "Julia," also feminine):
Origen (mentioned earlier) as translated by Rufinus (AD 345 - 410), .
zerinus wrote:Origen certainly did not say that Junia was a man; and I have no reason to assume that the rest of your citations accurately represent what you claim. If you are blatantly wrong about Origen, what reason do I have to assume that you are right about the rest?
Total failure on reading comprehension there Zernius.
"Any over-ritualized religion since the dawn of time can make its priests say yes, we know, it is rotten, and hard luck, but just do as we say, keep at the ritual, stick it out, give us your money and you'll end up with the angels in heaven for evermore."
zerinus wrote:Origen certainly did not say that Junia was a man;
I agree.
I was typing fast. I meant to say woman. Origen certainly does not say that Junia was a woman, and the context of the passage implies that Origen believed that he is a man.
zerinus wrote:Origen certainly does not say that Junia was a woman, and the context of the passage implies that Origen believed that he is a man.[/color]
Please demonstrate your assertion.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
