Little girl has her mic turned off during F&T meeting

[_Jersey Girl]

It's the cult's prerogative to run their meetings how ever they like. I fault the official stand of the church against LGBT orientation and non-acceptance -- but the church has every right to control their meetings however they like. I don't fault the girl at all. I don't fault her parents either. I don't fault the bishop for maintaining their cult controls in their own environment.

I agree with this.

The only think I fault in this whole thing is the official position of the church against LGBT. We may see more of this activity in the future as the cult wrestles with internal rumblings.

What I disagree with in terms of new church policy is requiring 18 year olds to renounce the same sex relationship between the parents that raised them and leave their home. You'll forgive, but that is one of the worst mind "F"s I've ever heard of.

[_candygal]

in my opinion, it's pretty child-abusey for a 12-year-old to have such notions in their head to begin with.

did you watch the last part showing the hand written notes?

The girl is a child and she's speaking over a microphone to an audience about her desire to have a romantic relationship?

And yet they indoctrinate them much younger than that the they must grow up and marry in the temple??

They baptize at age 8 to be held accountable...and yet discount a testimony from a 12 year old..

[_Jersey Girl]

The girl is a child and she's speaking over a microphone to an audience about her desire to have a romantic relationship?

If she had spoken simply about her desire to fall in love, marry in the Temple, and raise a family, would you hold the same opinion?

[_JLHPROF]

Well let's talk about this. Granted I'm not LDS but I'll do my best to relate. I'd like to start here:

1. In your belief, who created the spirit that became the child?

2. When the child became flesh in her mother's womb, was she a complete creation?

1. God, our Heavenly Father is the creator/father of our spirits
2. That's a very loaded question that asks for more clarification. I am not sure any of us are complete creations. If we were we would not become new creations in Christ, become even more perfect creations upon our resurrection.
But yes, she would be a complete mortal person as an infant.

[_Jersey Girl]

Well let's talk about this. Granted I'm not LDS but I'll do my best to relate. I'd like to start here:

1. In your belief, who created the spirit that became the child?

2. When the child became flesh in her mother's womb, was she a complete creation?

1. God, our Heavenly Father is the creator/father of our spirits
2. That's a very loaded question that asks for more clarification. I am not sure any of us are complete creations. If we were we would not become new creations in Christ, become even more perfect creations upon our resurrection.
But yes, she would be a complete mortal person as an infant.

Thank you.

When I speak in terms of the completed creation I am not referring to our hearts changing as we accept and act on the teachings of Christ. I am simply asking if the created human being is complete in terms of physical development.

For example, one of my life mantras regarding how I view all children is,

"Every child is a unique and unrepeatable creation."

Do you agree or disagree with the sentiments of that mantra?

[_Jersey Girl]

JLHPROF,

I want to reshuffle her statements and see what you believe is false doctrine because I want to disagree with one of her statements myself.

- I believe that if God is there, he knows I am perfect, just the way I am.

I have to disagree that God knows we are perfect just the way we are. If that were the case there would be no need for salvation. So there is that.

I'll put the rest in another post for easier response because I want to know where you see false doctrine in her statements. You can just tell me outright, but I really want to know what you're thinking is.


1.

They did not mess up when they made me to be gay.

Do you think that her heavenly parents messed up when she was made to be gay?

2.

I do believe he made me this way on purpose.

Do you think it possible that Heavenly Father/God made her to be gay on purpose?

3.

I believe God would tell me if I was wrong.

Do you believe that if she is wrong, God will tell her in terms of personal revelation?

4.

I know I can have all of these things as a lesbian and be happy.

I don't see this as doctrinal so much as I see it aspirational, but feel free to tell me where she is wrong.


Where is the false doctrine in her statements? If it's one thing, let's take the one thing and discuss.

[_Shulem]

- I know I can have all of these things as a lesbian and be happy.

The Book of Mormon explicitly teaches that "wickedness never was happiness" and the church is officially on record for teaching that homosexual practice is wickedness. Therefore, it is doctrine of the church that living a gay life is wickedness.

I know for sure, 100%, by personal experience and personal revelation that the Mormon doctrine is completely false. For me, it's not a matter of faith or listening to church leaders harp about how they view others as evil or wicked people. I know by sight and pure knowledge that being gay is not evil or wicked. It's perfectly natural and beautiful.

Mormons are cruel when they call homosexuality wickedness. It is the furthest from the truth.

[_JLHPROF]

1.

They did not mess up when they made me to be gay.

Do you think that her heavenly parents messed up when she was made to be gay?

2.

I do believe he made me this way on purpose.

Do you think it possible that Heavenly Father/God made her to be gay on purpose?

3.

I believe God would tell me if I was wrong.

Do you believe that if she is wrong, God will tell her in terms of personal revelation?

4.

I know I can have all of these things as a lesbian and be happy.

I don't see this as doctrinal so much as I see it aspirational, but feel free to tell me where she is wrong.

1. & 2. I do not believe God made her to be gay, on purpose or accidentally or in any other way.
Although Ether 12:27 could play a part.
3. As most people on this board will be happy to point out, claiming a spiritual answer from God is no guarantee since so many different answers are obtained.
4. I agree with you. The question of truthfulness is whether she can actually have marriage and family in a Church that teaches only heterosexual families can be eternal (and therefore happy).

[_Shulem]

1. & 2. I do not believe God made her to be gay, on purpose or accidentally or in any other way.
Although Ether 12:27 could play a part.

You can't have your cake and eat it too. You said earlier:

1. God, our Heavenly Father is the creator/father of our spirits . . . . But yes, she would be a complete mortal person as an infant.

But you do believe God created her -- spiritually and genetically, right? God made her and he made her the way she is, GAY. Sexual orientation is not a choice. It just is. Are you straight? You didn't chose that, you were born that way -- made that way. Same thing for a gay person. Born that way, made that way.

[_Shulem]

3. As most people on this board will be happy to point out, claiming a spiritual answer from God is no guarantee since so many different answers are obtained.

Spiritual answers people claim to get from God about the so-called evil practice of homosexual relations are no more valid than the Explanations and translations Joseph Smith got about Facsimile No. 3. I don't accept the false Egyptian translations of Mormonism any more than their misunderstanding of human sexuality.

Mormons are wrong about so many things. It staggers the mind just to think about it!