Little girl has her mic turned off during F&T meeting

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_toon
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Re: Little girl has her mic turned off during F&T meeting

Post by _toon »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:Water Dog,

Your use of 'leaving the church but can't leave it alone' canard isn't applicable to the context of the discussion. You again failed to make your statement make any sense within the confines of the discussion.

Also, I call buuuuuuuuuuuuull ____ on the kids not being allowed to bare their testimonies. The Ward near us does it EVERY SINGLE F&T. My BIL's Ward does it EVERY SINGLE F&T. I attended church in Korea in 2014 and 2015 a few times and the kids were being coached both F&T's I was there.

You. Are. Full of it.

- Doc


I've heard local leaders discourage parents from whispering into a kid's ear during F&T meeting. I also vaguely recall some letter (perhaps First Presidency) being read over the pulpit about proper F&T meeting testimony etiquette. I've never seen this enforced, though.

And regardless, I think there are two distinctions:

1. Even if discouraged in F&T meeting, it's not discouraged elsewhere. In fact, Primary will sometimes have its own testimony meeting, and when dealing with little kids, coaching is inevitable if not impossible.

2. That this girl prepared her testimony in advance and sought input from close family members is not the same as a parent whispering into a kid's ear what to say. Not even close. I remember with my wife's grandmother passed away, her dad and uncle sought input from each other and others when writing their eulogies. What they ended up saying, however, was their words, and it would have been absurd to think that they had been somehow manipulated.
_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Little girl has her mic turned off during F&T meeting

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

I'm still kind of hung up on WD's obstinance regarding people 'not leaving the Church alone'. I mean it's just such bull crap.

- The Church will baptize kids at EIGHT-YEARS-OLD. Who the “F” knows anything about anything at 8??? But the Church dunks your ass claiming you're now old enough to commit to a lifetime of Church membership. It's just wrong.

- The Church confers the priesthood on TWELVE-YEAR-OLDS. 12!

- The Church demands EIGHTEEN-YEAR-OLDS serve a mission proclaiming the truthfulness of the Church. Give me a break! We send a bunch of children out to tell everyone else their faith is erroneous and the Mormon church is the right faith. When did the Church ever leave these kids alone? When has the Church ever left ANYONE alone?

And, yet WD gets his knickers in a twist over a kid basically stating that she's Gay and wanting others to know it's ok. That it's ok to be Gay and Mormon.

The Church certainly isn't leaving any kids alone at any point throughout their young lives, but god forbid someone states in front of a congregation that they're different and they'd just like to be accepted by the people who knows her.

How do these kids, families, dependents, and completely inmeshed types just walk the “F” out the door? How does someone who has had basically NO CHOICE throughout their lives just walk out the door and leave everyone alone? What a heartless and unthinking thing to say.

- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
_Lemmie
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Re: Little girl has her mic turned off during F&T meeting

Post by _Lemmie »

Water Dog wrote:If your argument is that people have a busy-body right to nag the LDS church into compliance - because by golly, pounding the table, you're just right and they are wrong - I disagree with you. That same argument could be made against anything or anybody. It's an argument for a totalitarian state with zero privacy that you've appointed yourself the head of. You disagree with the LDS church, so what? Your subjective opinion is no more right or wrong than theirs. You have zero right to bark orders at them and tell them how to raise their kids. And in context, if you want to play these sort of busy-body games, I can think of more problematic cultures that your time would be better spent on. I dunno, like, maybe the muslims. And I point this out because ironically, the same folks who get so worked up about the LDS church and gays are going out of their way to embrace the spread of islam around the world.

What part of the girl's statement qualifies as "busy-body nag[ging] the LDS church," or "pounding the table," or "bark[ing] orders," or "get-[ting] so worked up"?

You seem to be arguing an entirely different issue.
_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Little girl has her mic turned off during F&T meeting

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

There you have it. WD has no answers other than 'suck it up' Gay people. 'We all got problems'! God forbid people state that something is amiss and they stick up for themselves. Progress would just happen organically! Stop agitating for dignity!

- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
_Chap
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Re: Little girl has her mic turned off during F&T meeting

Post by _Chap »

Water Dog wrote:...
If your argument is that people have a busy-body right to nag the LDS church into compliance - because by golly, pounding the table, you're just right and they are wrong - I disagree with you. That same argument could be made against anything or anybody. It's an argument for a totalitarian state with zero privacy that you've appointed yourself the head of. You disagree with the LDS church, so what? Your subjective opinion is no more right or wrong than theirs. You have zero right to bark orders at them and tell them how to raise their kids.


If I am a BIC and baptised member of the CoJCoLDS, who believes in the Gospel and sees the church I was brought up in as Christ's only restored church on earth, and as I move into adolescence I become conscious that the church rejects a core aspect of what I realise myself to be - my way of finding adult human love - then I sure as hell have a right to say to my fellow church members 'Friends: I think our church is getting something wrong, just like when it got the whole issue of black people wrong. Please listen to me and I shall tell you why'. Which is pretty well what that little girl did.

That's not being a busybody. That's not nagging, or pounding the table, or violating anybody's privacy (hell, it's HER church, right?). It is speaking the truth as you believe God has given you to see it to the fellow members of your family in Christ. It's a duty.

Water Dog wrote:And in context, if you want to play these sort of busy-body games, I can think of more problematic cultures that your time would be better spent on. I dunno, like, maybe the muslims. And I point this out because ironically, the same folks who get so worked up about the LDS church and gays are going out of their way to embrace the spread of islam around the world.


If I am a member of the CoJCoLDS, like that little girl, my primary duty is to speak the truth to my church. Which is what she tried to do until they turned her mike off ...
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
_Lemmie
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Re: Little girl has her mic turned off during F&T meeting

Post by _Lemmie »

Water Dog wrote:
Lemmie wrote:What part of the girl's statement qualifies as "busy-body nag[ging] the LDS church," or "pounding the table," or "bark[ing] orders," or "get-[ting] so worked up"?

Lemmie, do you read English? As usual, I have literally no idea what you're talking about. None of those words are in reference to the girl or her statement.

Exactly my point! (I think you understand better than you admit. :lol: ) You try to move the goalposts by stating elements that have nothing to do with the topic at hand. If the little girl's testimony had none of those elements, as you admit, then why do you use those elements to try to re-frame the question?
Water Dog wrote:If your argument is that people have a busy-body right to nag the LDS church into compliance - because by golly, pounding the table, you're just right and they are wrong - I disagree with you.
_Jersey Girl
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Re: Little girl has her mic turned off during F&T meeting

Post by _Jersey Girl »

Water Dog wrote:
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:How do these kids, families, dependents, and completely inmeshed types just walk the “F” out the door? How does someone who has had basically NO CHOICE throughout their lives just walk out the door and leave everyone alone? What a heartless and unthinking thing to say.

Cry me a river. Oh, the horror of horrors, someone was born into an LDS family. Everybody is born into circumstances that are beyond control. In the main, LDS folks are doing pretty good and live a damn pampered existence when you get right down to it. We all have childhood issues to overcome. All of us. Being gay in an LDS household is no more an issue than any number of other things we could put on a list.


Being gay in an LDS household isn't the issue. Being gay in the LDS church is the issue.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
_Lemmie
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Re: Little girl has her mic turned off during F&T meeting

Post by _Lemmie »

Chap wrote:If I am a BIC and baptised member of the CoJCoLDS, who believes in the Gospel and sees the church I was brought up in as Christ's only restored church on earth, and as I move into adolescence I become conscious that the church rejects a core aspect of what I realise myself to be - my way of finding adult human love - then I sure as hell have a right to say to my fellow church members 'Friends: I think our church is getting something wrong, just like when it got the whole issue of black people wrong. Please listen to me and I shall tell you why'. Which is pretty well what that little girl did.

That's not being a busybody. That's not nagging, or pounding the table, or violating anybody's privacy (hell, it's HER church, right?). It is speaking the truth as you believe God has given you to see it to the fellow members of your family in Christ. It's a duty.

Water Dog wrote:And in context, if you want to play these sort of busy-body games, I can think of more problematic cultures that your time would be better spent on. I dunno, like, maybe the muslims. And I point this out because ironically, the same folks who get so worked up about the LDS church and gays are going out of their way to embrace the spread of islam around the world.


If I am a member of the CoJCoLDS, like that little girl, my primary duty is to speak the truth to my church. Which is what she tried to do until they turned her mike off ...

Great points. For a twelve-year-old, she was pretty brave, I think. And in her twelve-year-old world, she's struggling with a burden that's pretty overwhelming. Overwhelming enough that there is a suicide crisis in Utah. Asking a pre-teen to not feel so bad because there are bigger issues in the world would be adding to that burden.
_Lemmie
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Re: Little girl has her mic turned off during F&T meeting

Post by _Lemmie »

Water Dog wrote:And I point this out because ironically, the same folks who get so worked up about the LDS church and gays are going out of their way to embrace the spread of islam around the world.

The same folks? CFR, Water Dog. CFR. Your well-documented tendency to speak in broad stereotypes is irritating at best, and inexcusable here. Please produce references that "the same folks" are involved.
Last edited by Guest on Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
_Jersey Girl
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Re: Little girl has her mic turned off during F&T meeting

Post by _Jersey Girl »

Lemmie wrote: And in her twelve-year-old world, she's struggling with a burden that's pretty overwhelming. Overwhelming enough that there is a suicide crisis in Utah.

^^^ That. That right there is the critical issue.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
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