Water Dog wrote:And in context, if you want to play these sort of busy-body games, I can think of more problematic cultures that your time would be better spent on. I dunno, like, maybe the muslims. And I point this out because ironically, the same folks who get so worked up about the LDS church and gays are going out of their way to embrace the spread of islam around the world.
I agree that there are more problematic cultures, Islamic societies and communites being among them. (I wouldn't call "muslims" a culture.)
And I echo the call for evidence that "the same folks who get so worked up about the LDS church and gays are going out of their way to embrace the spread of Islam around the world."
Sure, there is a leftist embrace of Islam that is difficult to understand, but that's not the same thing as what you're claiming.
Lemmie wrote: And in her twelve-year-old world, she's struggling with a burden that's pretty overwhelming. Overwhelming enough that there is a suicide crisis in Utah.
^^^ That. That right there is the critical issue.
In the back of my mind, throughout this whole discussion, I keep recalling the Utah suicides I have read about recently. This girl sounds strong and determined, but people are saying some horrible, horrible things about her and her family. Even in this thread, one poster speculated -with no evidence whatsoever!- that "the leadership/ward may have already had a history of certain behaviors with this girl and her family." Despicable.
I'm sure she has lots of support and encouragement, at least I hope so, because she will need it.
Water Dog wrote:And I point this out because ironically, the same folks who get so worked up about the LDS church and gays are going out of their way to embrace the spread of islam around the world.
The same folks? CFR, Water Dog. CFR. Your well-documented tendency to speak in broad stereotypes is irritating at best, and inexcusable here. Please produce references that "the same folks" are involved.
Water Dog wrote:See the presidential election. Did you vote for Trump and banning refugees from immigrating to the USA?
That's not a reference, Water Dog.
Please produce references that "the same folks who get so worked up about the LDS church and gays are going out of their way to embrace the spread of islam around the world." Or you can withdraw the statement, because it is a pretty ridiculous stereotype to pursue.
Lemmie wrote:And in her twelve-year-old world, she's struggling with a burden that's pretty overwhelming. Overwhelming enough that there is a suicide crisis in Utah.
Oh brother. No she's not. Her parents are rainbow flag waiving activists.
Water Dog wrote: As for the suicide crisis, CFR! No evidence has been produced to show there is a gay-related suicide crisis in Utah. A lot of accusations to that effect, no concrete data to substantiate the claim. Any data provided is correlational at best.
What is the direct empirical evidence?
1.National studies show that LGBTQ teens are at a much higher risk of suicide attempts.1
2.Family Acceptance Project (FAP) has done some excellent research showing that there is an exponential risk of suicide for LGBTQ teens who come from families that show rejecting behaviors. They even studied what those rejecting behaviors are, and anyone familiar with the Mormon community would recognize those rejecting behaviors as being very common in our communities. Rejecting behaviors by parents are even reinforced by local church leaders and Mormon culture (refer to FAP information). It is also important to note that the risk of suicide remains higher well into adulthood. These youth also have exponentially higher rates of drug/alcohol use, depression, and HIV infection compared to youth raised in homes that don’t show these rejecting behaviors.2
3.Schools with explicit anti-homophobia interventions such as gay-straight alliances (GSAs) may reduce the odds of suicidal thoughts and attempts among LGBTQ students.3
4.Suicide is the number one cause of death of all Utah youth; this is not the case nationally. More alarming, the teen suicide rate in Utah has doubled since 2011.4
5.Teen suicide is lower when there is an LGBTQ supportive environment.5
Unfortunately, isolation (a risk factor for suicide) is more prevalent among LGBTQ people. For example, one study shows that lesbian, gay and bisexual Australians are twice as likely as heterosexual Australians to have no contact with family or no family to rely on for serious problems (11.8% v. 5.9%).6
There is a clear body of research showing that there is an elevated risk of suicide among LGBTQ teens nationally. There is also a clear body of research showing what the major risk factors are for suicide and other poor outcomes for LGBTQ youth. There is no reason to believe that the LDS community is immune to this. Based on this alone, we do need to consider that we have a suicide problem in our community. Analysis of the data suggests that the problem is worse in LDS communities than the national average. The youth suicide rate in Utah is the first statistic that implies this. Although the suicide rate is elevated throughout the intermountain west,7 no other states have seen the doubling in the teen suicides that Utah has had in the past 4 years. Why is youth suicide in Utah so much higher than the national average? Since LGBTQ issues may be a large factor impacting teen suicides, it would be irresponsible not to address these issues locally, especially when the suicide problem is so acute in Utah, where the highest concentration of Mormons live. Meanwhile, studies have shown us the risk factors for suicide, but protective factors have not been studied as extensively or rigorously as risk factors.
(The footnotes are not hyperlinked in the above excerpt, but they are in the link.) Here's my CFR. Your requested, multiple CFRs are forthcoming, I assume.
Last edited by Guest on Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:05 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:There you have it. Water Dog has no answers other than 'suck it up' Gay people. 'We all got problems'! God forbid people state that something is amiss and they stick up for themselves. Progress would just happen organically! Stop agitating for dignity!
You like to change the subject. You asked specifically about dependents. A dependent, by definition, has no choice but to suck it up. They're kids. It's not your place to go into people's homes and encourage their children to rebel. When they cease to be dependents however, no, the answer isn't to "suck it up," it's to stop being a baby and walk through the door. You're a free, liberated American. You don't have to go to this church. Don't spend your life dwelling on the Mormons...
I quoted you saying that they have to suck it up. You just stated for a second time that they have to suck it up.
That's literally your answer. Twice.
Also, I consider myself ethnically Mormon. BIC, RM, temple married, full tithe payer when I snapped out of it. But Mormonism will always be a part of me and especially so since I live in Utah. We have a right to discuss things Mormon because its influence extends far beyond the doors at church. If they're political then we get to be political. What gives them the right to come into my house and dictate to me politically their personal beliefs? Your double standard for the Mormon church is ridiculous.
- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.
Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
God loves all of us. He loves those of different faiths and those without any faith. He loves those who suffer. He loves the rich and poor alike. He loves people of every race and culture, the married or single, and those who experience same-sex attraction or identify as gay, lesbian, or bisexual.
Let us be clear: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believes that ‘the experience of same-sex attraction is a complex reality for many people.
The Church itself is 'pounding on the table'. They even made a website that makes it clear Gays are welcome in the Church. That kid did NOTHING out of line because the Church itself states it's perfectly normal to be Gay and they're welcome in the Church. Why don't you just admit you're way off base on this issue, and cutting off her mic was wrong?
- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.
Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.