Little girl has her mic turned off during F&T meeting

[_Lemmie]

Adding this.

http://fox13now.com/2017/06/21/utah-tee ... oes-viral/

UTAH COUNTY --
<snip>
....There are clear guidelines laid out by the LDS Church regarding bearing testimony at church and what’s considered appropriate. In a letter written by the first presidency, it says “parents and teachers should help children learn what a testimony is and when it is appropriate for them to express it.”
<snip>

What's your point? Or are you just acknowledging that Doc's 5 point testimony template IS considered mainstream?

[_Lemmie]

Here is also a nice little excerpt from "Fast and Testimony Meeting" in the Encyclopedia of Mormonism

After the Sacrament has been administered, the person conducting the meeting expresses his testimony, then invites the members of the congregation of all ages to do likewise. Sometimes they stand in place to speak; at other times they come forward to the pulpit. Each one arises, as prompted by the Spirit, and addresses the congregation extemporaneously. In this setting feelings of profoundest concern are often expressed: appreciation of good family relationships, thanksgiving for the blessings of the gospel, recognition of significant changes in lives, and the fruits of obedience. A faith-promoting experience may be shared or a witness given regarding a point of doctrine or attesting divine inspiration. Such expressions are usually concluded by a prayer or petition in the name of the Lord. The experience is at once enlightening, sobering, and moving. Tears are not uncommon amid acknowledgment of weaknesses and efforts to improve, along with gratitude for divine goodness.

Bolding mine, of course. Does her testimony not fall into this category as well?

I would think so. It's interesting the 5 point template isn't found in this entry, maybe it is elsewhere. This entry is beautifully written.

[_Equality]

I guess I'm not done with the thread. Got this off the exmo subreddit:

https://www.LDS.org/friend/2008/10/test ... e?lang=eng

My Testimony

1. I know that God is our Heavenly Father and He loves us.
2. I know that His Son, Jesus Christ, is our Savior and Redeemer.
3. I know that Joseph Smith is a prophet of God. He restored the gospel of Jesus Christ to the earth and translated the Book of Mormon by the power of God.
4. I know that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the Lord’s Church on the earth today.
5. I know that this Church is led by a living prophet who receives revelation.

As you develop your testimony, don’t be afraid to share it! As you bear your testimony, you can use phrases like “I testify that …” or “I know that …” Your testimony will grow stronger when you share it with others.

So does this mean that Bishops will now cut the mic when kids get up to bear their testimony and say "I wuv my mom and dad. I wuv my famawee..." I mean, if these are the only five acceptable things to say, will they now be enforcing the template? Will Brother and Sister Laverl and Ermagerd Christensen now be given the hook when they start bearing testimony about their last RV trip to the canyon?

[Guest]

So does this mean that Bishops will now cut the mic when kids get up to bear their testimony and say "I wuv my mom and dad. I wuv my famawee..." I mean, if these are the only five acceptable things to say, will they now be enforcing the template? Will Brother and Sister Laverl and Ermagerd Christensen now be given the hook when they start bearing testimony about their last RV trip to the canyon?

I think that is why I like the definition found in the EoM so much. It offers a lot more leeway in this regard and represents more what I understood the testimony to represent in my time as a member.

ETA:

This entry is beautifully written.

I find that, barring theological differences, I often really enjoy the entries in the EoM. I think the folks that contribute to and edit it to a pretty fine job.

[_Lemmie]

Or are you just acknowledging that Doc's 5 point testimony template IS considered mainstream?

I'm neither agreeing or disagreeing that the 5-point robot template is mainstream. That will vary place to place within the church.

Ok. Your opinion is evolving, I see.

What's your point?

Just adding because it's new information others started referencing. I think it does help to increase the resolution of the picture a little more.... From the article though there are some new statements where the mindset of Heather is revealed a bit more, and it reinforces my impression that she is an activist who was acting with an agenda. She's manipulated her daughter into having a strong sense of entitlement....

Below are the quotes related to the mother from your link. Could you be more specific about exactly how these particular quotes "reinforce[d your] impression that she is an activist who was acting with an agenda," and how they helped you determine "she's manipulated her daughter..."?

This was not something Savannah’s parents wanted her to share with her congregation.

“When I talked about it with my husband, we were on the same boat there," said Heather Kester. "We just both thought it would’ve been hurtful for her, but then she kept persisting."

However, after months of insisting, they got on board and last month she stood up in front of her ward and shared her truth....

“When I turned around he was like, 'Can you sit down?' and I was like, 'oh,” Savannah recalled.

“She came around and just laid in my lap and cried,” Kester said....

Many have said Savannah’s testimony was simply shared at the wrong time and place.

“When is the time or the place?" Kester said. "She felt like she wanted to share with her congregation and that is her congregation. That’s her neighborhood and this is her faith."

It’s also clearly written in the LDS Church handbook that “taking photos or recording video in the chapel is not permitted.”

However, Kester says it was recorded by a friend who supported the message.

“Because I wanted my message to come out to everyone and because even if I was to stand by and watch it happen, nothing would happen and it would probably get worse,” Savannah said.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

In case any lurkers might have a bit of heartburn with a testimony or sacrament meeting talk being recorded it's rather common as evidenced by easily found YouTubez:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDpPp4KyRUA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9KQE9LlJBk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3U1Gw5IN2hU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWbcec9U23c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THTpVELyKI8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOWuv7T6-9k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14T-b-oN9f0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VG-lmy1b7cs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97L6cQShnew

So. For a mother to record her daughter's testimony and to want to share it I think the Dawg is being hypocritical. The only reason why this blew up is because the dumb Bishop cut her mic. This never would've received the traction it did had he not done it, and at most it might've been shared a few times in circle jerky forums or on Facebook.

- Doc

[Guest]

Also, wasn't there something in the Book of Mormon about people getting up to a rameumptom (?) or pulpit and showing off for others in a sort of rote speech show of faith? Wasn't there something in the Bible about Pharisees being overly procedural and hypocritical?

Yet another contradiction in LDS behavior and administration. Oh, well.

- Doc

[_Lemmie]

I'm done with this thread. Not ducking further debate, but I feel I've said all there is to be said. It would take some pretty substantial new evidence to change my reading of all this....

I stand by what I've said.

Thank you for the additional information! I appreciate you supporting more specifically how you arrived at your opinion, it will be interesting to read through the links.

What I am seeing is that it was NOT the Fox article that led to your assumptions, even though you said this:

From the article though there are some new statements where the mindset of Heather is revealed a bit more, and it reinforces my impression that she is an activist who was acting with an agenda. She's manipulated her daughter into having a strong sense of entitlement....

Why say the above then, if it wasn't an accurate representation?

Not to be rude, but I'm just tired of responding to you. You're kind of exhausting. I feel like I shouldn't have to spell every little thing out and sketch a diagram for you.

If you define "spelling out" as the back pedaling you have to do every time you are caught in a less than truthful exaggeration or completely unsupportable statement you've presented as fact, then yes, you must be exhausted!!

[_Jersey Girl]

Reading back here. The underlined.

But, as Jersey Girl has pointed out, research shows that teenagers and particularly teenage girls have often reached levels of development and regularly carry out activities that adults who think 'they are just kids' know nothing about.

I don't recall saying that. Perhaps that's your addition? I do agree with it.

[Guest]

Here is Heather outing herself on Reddit.



And then looking at her reddit account's history, you can see where she created sock puppet reddit accounts that she used to drum up publicity about all this. Point being, it wasn't some random member of the audience who recorded all this and then it went viral on its own. Exactly the opposite.

I don't understand the red circles. One is of NewNameNoah who is Mike Norton, a well-known activist and the other circle is of a deleted /u/ name. I see that maybe Heather created the one post on /r/exmormon? Other than that I just see that she was responding to different users.

Also, Heather is married. You claimed she was a bull dyke lesbian, but from what I see she seems to be happily married. Are you going to back off your attempted slight on her character?

- Doc