Maksutov wrote: So why didn't Jesus have a woman? He spent all of his time with a bunch of unattached men. Paul didn't have a woman, either. I suspect they were both gay. You can't prove they weren't. So you have a bunch of hypocrites lecturing the rest of us about things they know nothing of. Situation normal.
Because Christ came to be a sacrifice and not to propagate. Unlike you, sex is not the only thing worth existing and dying for.
I think you need to take a look at the grammar of your last sentence. Are you saying that I am worth existing and dying for? Try again. I know it's hard to actually come up with sentences instead of just copying them.
LittleNipper wrote: Because Christ came to be a sacrifice and not to propagate. Unlike you, sex is not the only thing worth existing and dying for.
I think you need to take a look at the grammar of your last sentence. Are you saying that I am worth existing and dying for? Try again. I know it's hard to actually come up with sentences instead of just copying them.
Perhaps both explanations are entirely correct. You were worth dying for (to provide a chance at salvation) and yet without GOD sex here and now is the ultimate of your expectations...
Perhaps both explanations are entirely correct. You were worth dying for (to provide a chance at salvation) and yet without GOD sex here and now is the ultimate of your expectations...
Oh, I don't think you get to decide what the ultimate of my expectations might be. There is much more to life than sex or religion. You need curiosity and not just imagination. You need courage and a willingness to grow and learn. You need to speak your own words and think your own thoughts.
“Honor your father and mother” — this is the first commandment that holds promise —
“so that it may go well with you, and you may live long in the Land.”
Fathers, don’t irritate your children and make them resentful; instead, raise them with the Lord’s kind of discipline and guidance.
Slaves, obey your human masters with the same regard, trembling and oneness with which you obey the Messiah.
Don’t obey simply to gain their favor, serving only when they observe you; but serve as slaves of the Messiah, doing what God wants with all your heart.
Labor willingly as slaves, as people do who are serving not merely human beings but the Lord.
Remember that whoever does good work, whether he be a slave or a free man, will be rewarded by the Lord.
And masters, treat your slaves likewise. Don’t threaten them. Remember that in heaven both you and they have the same Master, and without favorites.
Finally, grow powerful in union with the Lord --- His mighty strength!
Use all the armor and weaponry that God provides --- that you will be able to stand against the deceptive tactics of Satan.
For we are not struggling against human beings, but against the rulers, authorities and cosmic powers governing this darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realm.
So draw upon every piece of war equipment God provides; so that when the evil day comes, you will be able to resist; and when the battle is won, you will remain standing.
Therefore, stand! Have the belt of truth buckled about your waist, put on righteousness for a breastplate,
and on your feet wear the readiness that comes from the Good Message of peace.
Always carry the shield of trust, with which you will be able to extinguish all the flaming arrows of the Evil One.
And take the helmet of deliverance; together with the sword given by the Spirit, that is, God's Word;
as you pray continually, with all sorts of prayers and requests, in the Spirit, vigilantly and persistently, for all God’s people.
Pray for me, too, that whenever I speak, the words will be provided to be bold in making known the secret of the Good Message,
for which I'm a chained ambassador. Pray that I may speak boldly, as I should.
Now, so that you may also be informed about my health and what I'm doing, Tychicus, the dear brother and a faithful worker for the Lord, will explain everything.
This is why I have sent him to you, so that you may know how we are getting along and so that he may comfort and encourage you.
Peace to the brethren. May God the Father and Lord Jesus the Messiah give you love and trust.
Grace be to all who love our Lord Jesus the Messiah with undying love.
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
1 The children! obey your parents in the Lord, for this is righteous;
2 honour thy father and mother,
3 which is the first command with a promise, `That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live a long time upon the land.'
4 And the fathers! provoke not your children, but nourish them in the instruction and admonition of the Lord.
5 The servants! obey the masters according to the flesh with fear and trembling, in the simplicity of your heart, as to the Christ;
6 not with eye-service as men-pleasers, but as servants of the Christ, doing the will of God out of soul,
7 with good-will serving, as to the Lord, and not to men,
8 having known that whatever good thing each one may do, this he shall receive from the Lord, whether servant or freeman.
9 And the masters! the same things do ye unto them, letting threatening alone, having known that also your Master is in the heavens, and acceptance of persons is not with him.
10 As to the rest, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might;
11 put on the whole armour of God, for your being able to stand against the wiles of the devil,
12 because we have not the wrestling with blood and flesh, but with the principalities, with the authorities, with the world-rulers of the darkness of this age, with the spiritual things of the evil in the heavenly places;
13 because of this take ye up the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to resist in the day of the evil, and all things having done -- to stand.
14 Stand, therefore, having your loins girt about in truth, and having put on the breastplate of the righteousness,
15 and having the feet shod in the preparation of the good-news of the peace;
16 above all, having taken up the shield of the faith, in which ye shall be able all the fiery darts of the evil one to quench,
17 and the helmet of the salvation receive, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the saying of God,
18 through all prayer and supplication praying at all times in the Spirit, and in regard to this same, watching in all perseverance and supplication for all the saints --
19 and in behalf of me, that to me may be given a word in the opening of my mouth, in freedom, to make known the secret of the good news,
20 for which I am an ambassador in a chain, that in it I may speak freely -- as it behoveth me to speak.
21 And that ye may know -- ye also -- the things concerning me -- what I do, all things make known to you shall Tychicus, the beloved brother and faithful ministrant in the Lord,
22 whom I did send unto you for this very thing, that ye might know the things concerning us, and that he might comfort your hearts.
23 Peace to the brethren, and love, with faith, from God the Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ!
24 The grace with all those loving our Lord Jesus Christ -- undecayingly! Amen.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
Perhaps both explanations are entirely correct. You were worth dying for (to provide a chance at salvation) and yet without GOD sex here and now is the ultimate of your expectations...
Oh, I don't think you get to decide what the ultimate of my expectations might be. There is much more to life than sex or religion. You need curiosity and not just imagination. You need courage and a willingness to grow and learn. You need to speak your own words and think your own thoughts.
Maksutov wrote: Oh, I don't think you get to decide what the ultimate of my expectations might be. There is much more to life than sex or religion. You need curiosity and not just imagination. You need courage and a willingness to grow and learn. You need to speak your own words and think your own thoughts.
From: Saul and Timothy, slaves of Jesus the Messiah.
To: All God’s people united with Jesus the Messiah and living in Philippi, along with the congregation leaders and administrators:
Grace and Peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus the Messiah.
I thank my God every time I think of you.
Whenever I pray for all of you I always pray joyously,
because you have assisted in proclaiming the Good Message from the very first day until now.
And I'm certain of this: that the One who began a good work among you will continue expanding until it is completed on the Day of Jesus the Messiah.
It is correct of me to think this way regarding all you, because I have you on my heart; for whether I am in chains or defending and establishing the Good Message, you are all sharing with me in this privileged work.
God can testify how I long for all of you with the deep affection of Jesus the Messiah.
And this is my prayer: that your love may spill over in fullness of knowledge and depth of discernment,
so that you will be able to determine what is best and thus be pure and without blame for the Day of the Messiah,
filled with the fruit of righteousness that comes through Jesus the Messiah — to the glory and praise of God.
Now, brethren, I want you to know that what has occurred to me has helped in advancing the Good Message.
It has become clear to entire palace and everyone else that it is regarding the Messiah that I'm in chains.
Also, my being in prison has given most of the brethren in the Lord confidence, so that they have become much more bold in speaking the word of God fearlessly.
True, some are promoting the Messiah out of jealousy and rivalry, but others are doing it in goodwill.
The latter act from love, aware that I am put where I am for defending the Good Message
while the former announce the Messiah out of selfish ambition and impure motives, imagining that they can stir up trouble for me in prison.
So what? All that matters is that in every way, whether honestly or in pretense, the Messiah is being proclaimed; and in that I rejoice.
Yes, and I will continue to rejoice,
for I know that this will work out for my deliverance, because of your prayers and the support I get from the Spirit of Jesus the Messiah.
According to my earnest expectation and hope that I will have nothing to be ashamed of; but rather, presently, as always, the Messiah will be honored by my body, whether it is alive or dead.
For to me, life is the Messiah, and death is gain.
But if by living on in this body I can do fruitful work, then I don’t know which to choose.
My dilemma is my desire is to die and be with the Messiah — that is better by far —
but because of you, the greater need is to stay alive.
Yes, I am convinced of this; so I know I will stay on with you in order to help you progress in the faith and have joy in it.
Then, through my being with you again, you will have even greater reason for boasting about Jesus the Messiah.
Only conduct your lives in a way worthy of the Good Message of the Messiah; so that whether I come and see you or I hear about you from a distance, you stand firm, united in spirit, fighting with one accord for the faith of the Good Message,
unafraid of anything the opposition does. This will be for them an indication that they are headed for destruction and you for deliverance. And this is from God;
because for the Messiah’s sake it has been granted to you not only to trust in Him but also to suffer on His behalf,
to fight the same battles you once saw me fight and presently hear that I am still fighting.
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
1 Paul and Timotheus, servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus who are in Philippi, with overseers and ministrants;
2 Grace to you, and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
3 I give thanks to my God upon all the remembrance of you,
4 always, in every supplication of mine for you all, with joy making the supplication,
5 for your contribution to the good news from the first day till now,
6 having been confident of this very thing, that He who did begin in you a good work, will perform [it] till a day of Jesus Christ,
7 according as it is righteous for me to think this in behalf of you all, because of my having you in the heart, both in my bonds, and [in] the defence and confirmation of the good news, all of you being fellow-partakers with me of grace.
8 For God is my witness, how I long for you all in the bowels of Jesus Christ,
9 and this I pray, that your love yet more and more may abound in full knowledge, and all judgment,
10 for your proving the things that differ, that ye may be pure and offenceless -- to a day of Christ,
11 being filled with the fruit of righteousness, that [is] through Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God.
12 And I wish you to know, brethren, that the things concerning me, rather to an advancement of the good news have come,
13 so that my bonds have become manifest in Christ in the whole praetorium, and to the other places -- all,
14 and the greater part of the brethren in the Lord, having confidence by my bonds, are more abundantly bold -- fearlessly to speak the word.
15 Certain, indeed, even through envy and contention, and certain also through good-will, do preach the Christ;
16 the one, indeed, of rivalry the Christ do proclaim, not purely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds,
17 and the other out of love, having known that for defence of the good news I am set:
18 what then? in every way, whether in pretence or in truth, Christ is proclaimed -- and in this I rejoice, yea, and shall rejoice.
19 For I have known that this shall fall out to me for salvation, through your supplication, and the supply of the Spirit of Christ Jesus,
20 according to my earnest expectation and hope, that in nothing I shall be ashamed, and in all freedom, as always, also now Christ shall be magnified in my body, whether through life or through death,
21 for to me to live [is] Christ, and to die gain.
22 And if to live in the flesh [is] to me a fruit of work, then what shall I choose? I know not;
23 for I am pressed by the two, having the desire to depart, and to be with Christ, for it is far better,
24 and to remain in the flesh is more necessary on your account,
25 and of this being persuaded, I have known that I shall remain and continue with you all, to your advancement and joy of the faith,
26 that your boasting may abound in Christ Jesus in me through my presence again to you.
27 Only worthily of the good news of the Christ conduct ye yourselves, that, whether having come and seen you, whether being absent I may hear of the things concerning you, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one soul, striving together for the faith of the good news,
28 and not terrified in anything by those opposing, which to them indeed is a token of destruction, and to you of salvation, and that from God;
29 because to you it was granted, on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in him, but also on behalf of him to suffer;
30 the same conflict having, such as ye saw in me, and now hear of in me.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
It's odd that Paul is more interested in his own teachings about Jesus than in the teachings of Jesus. But since he never met him, never knew him, he has to rely on his own imagination.
Maksutov wrote:It's odd that Paul is more interested in his own teachings about Jesus than in the teachings of Jesus. But since he never met him, never knew him, he has to rely on his own imagination.
So your belief is that Paul went from being an Orthodox Jew to become a most fervent of Christians, thus throwing away everything he had gained (pious reputation and all) for himself within the "Jewish" community to become a gentile loving political criminal? And what exactly do you base your belief on?
Maksutov wrote:It's odd that Paul is more interested in his own teachings about Jesus than in the teachings of Jesus. But since he never met him, never knew him, he has to rely on his own imagination.
So your belief is that Paul went from being an Orthodox Jew to become a most fervent of Christians, thus throwing away everything he had gained (pious reputation and all) for himself within the "Jewish" community to become a gentile loving political criminal? And what exactly do you base your belief on?
You don't think people change? I thought that was the whole point of conversion.
First of all, we only have his word for most of this, which I frankly don't trust. Second, he didn't become "the most fervent of Christians", he decided that he was in charge of the Christians, that he should define what/who Christ was. He battled a lot of the people who actually knew Jesus. He clashed with James and his group. He bent Judaism way out of shape so that it could be accepted by pagan Romans and thus more popular and powerful.
There is much more to life than sex or religion. You need curiosity and not just imagination. You need courage and a willingness to grow and learn. You need to speak your own words and think your own thoughts.
