SteelHead wrote:Surest path to excommunication at that level is misappropriation of church funds.
I am still thinking this is what it might be...it was my second thought. You know what?? I don't even care..excommunication is barbaric and crappy..it servers no purpose other than to judge and feel rather pious in a community of people who sin all the time. Why would apostasy be worse than adultery and all that..?? The whole thing is just bull.
SteelHead wrote:Surest path to excommunication at that level is misappropriation of church funds.
I am still thinking this is what it might be...it was my second thought. You know what?? I don't even care..excommunication is barbaric and crappy..it servers no purpose other than to judge and feel rather pious in a community of people who sin all the time. Why would apostasy be worse than adultery and all that..?? The whole thing is just bull.
If he were to be excommunicated for misappropriation of Church funds, wouldn't criminal charges be pursued? (In which case it would hit the news).
“When we are confronted with evidence that challenges our deeply held beliefs we are more likely to reframe the evidence than we are to alter our beliefs. We simply invent new reasons, new justifications, new explanations. Sometimes we ignore the evidence altogether.” (Mathew Syed 'Black Box Thinking')
SteelHead wrote:Surest path to excommunication at that level is misappropriation of church funds.
I am still thinking this is what it might be...it was my second thought. You know what?? I don't even care..excommunication is barbaric and crappy..it servers no purpose other than to judge and feel rather pious in a community of people who sin all the time. Why would apostasy be worse than adultery and all that..?? The whole thing is just bull.
I know most church authorities don't want to engage in excommunication but the New Testament specifically requires it as well as the D&C. So, they are just following revelation.
It seems to me that someone at that level would not normally be excommunicated for something that did not bring public embarrassment to the church. The leaders had to know that an excommunication at this level is sure to hit the news. The church hates negative PR more than anything. So if Hamula's offense was something that could be dealt with behind closed doors, why would thy go through with an excommunication that will shine a light on it? If it was an affair, he could go through the repentance process and, unless it was leaked, it would be kept private. Same thing if he was caught drinking beer, jerking it to porn, or committing any other repentable sin. So, in my mind, the church is either getting in front of illegal or embarrassing activities that are about to break in the news, or Hamula no longer believes, wants out, and he and the church leadership made an arrangement where he agreed to go along with the "no apostacy" official explanation. I also like the theory that he was the leaker to mormonleaks. I hope Hamula gets to tell his own story soon.
"We have taken up arms in defense of our liberty, our property, our wives, and our children; we are determined to preserve them, or die." - Captain Moroni - 'Address to the Inhabitants of Canada' 1775
“When we are confronted with evidence that challenges our deeply held beliefs we are more likely to reframe the evidence than we are to alter our beliefs. We simply invent new reasons, new justifications, new explanations. Sometimes we ignore the evidence altogether.” (Mathew Syed 'Black Box Thinking')
I read earlier today that the reason for the excommunication stemmed from Hamula challenging Elder Oaks on Oaks seeming to rule the roost while President Monson is incapacitated.
Maksutov wrote:Didn't he have his calling and election made sure? Or not?
JLHPROF wrote: Depends if you are referring to the ordinance or the confirmation...
Someone has a shocking lack of faith in the priesthood.
Not at all. D&C 121:36 That the rights of the priesthood are inseparably connected with the powers of heaven, and that the powers of heaven cannot be controlled nor handled only upon the principles of righteousness.
Doesn't matter what he was ordained to. And the second comforter isn't an automatic blessing received by everyone who receives that highest ordination.
So I say again, whether or not he had his calling and election made sure depends on whether you are referring to the ordinance or the confirmation of the blessing. We tend to use the term interchangeably for both.
Thy mind, O man! if thou wilt lead a soul unto salvation, must stretch as high as the utmost heavens, and search into and contemplate the darkest abyss, and the broad expanse of eternity—thou must commune with God. - Joseph Smith
Maksutov wrote:Didn't he have his calling and election made sure? Or not?
JLHPROF wrote: Depends if you are referring to the ordinance or the confirmation...
Someone has a shocking lack of faith in the priesthood.
JLHPROF wrote:Not at all. D&C 121:36 That the rights of the priesthood are inseparably connected with the powers of heaven, and that the powers of heaven cannot be controlled nor handled only upon the principles of righteousness.
Doesn't matter what he was ordained to. And the second comforter isn't an automatic blessing received by everyone who receives that highest ordination.
So I say again, whether or not he had his calling and election made sure depends on whether you are referring to the ordinance or the confirmation of the blessing. We tend to use the term interchangeably for both.
Then why not do the ordinance for everyone and let the HG/second comforter sort it out?
I'm sure Sister Hamula is just thrilled to death the LDS church just plastered their crap all over the Internet and international news headlines.
- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.
Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
It's time to graduate from seminary, JLHPROF. Either a person's calling and election is made sure, or it has not been made sure. If it has, then the only way to lose it is by shedding innocent blood or denying the Holy Ghost. It doesn't matter what you infer from other scriptures on different topics, or what Bruce R. "Fibbing" McConkie said.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist