Joseph the King in Mormon Theology

[_zerinus]

Hi, this discussion has already gone on in the other thread. Before I respond, I'd like to point out that you've come out swinging at me as "so unintelligent that [i] can't see something so plain and obvious..." I think we're all allowed to make mistakes, so let's point things out intelligently and see if others respond in kind rather than hurl insults from the get go. Also, though I certainly am a critical thinker, I'm not a full-on critic. I am an active member of the church, just with some very different view points than your typical TBM.

Anyways, here is the relevant discussion:

* * *

I hadn't read all the way through that thread, I only looked at the OP. Now that I have looked at it, I have noticed that my observation had already been made by others in that thread, and that you had acknowledged it. As for Joseph Smith's lineal descent is concerned, it is pretty standard LDS doctrine that he had descended from Joseph the son of Jacob that was sold into Egypt. That is taught in the Book of Mormon:

2 Nephi 3:

6 For Joseph truly testified, saying: A seer shall the Lord my God raise up, who shall be a choice seer unto the fruit of my loins.
7 Yea, Joseph truly said: Thus saith the Lord unto me: A choice seer will I raise up out of the fruit of thy loins; and he shall be esteemed highly among the fruit of thy loins. And unto him will I give commandment that he shall do a work for the fruit of thy loins, his brethren, which shall be of great worth unto them, even to the bringing of them to the knowledge of the covenants which I have made with thy fathers.
8 And I will give unto him a commandment that he shall do none other work, save the work which I shall command him. And I will make him great in mine eyes; for he shall do my work.
9 And he shall be great like unto Moses, whom I have said I would raise up unto you, to deliver my people, O house of Israel.
10 And Moses will I raise up, to deliver thy people out of the land of Egypt.
11 But a seer will I raise up out of the fruit of thy loins; and unto him will I give power to bring forth my word unto the seed of thy loins—and not to the bringing forth my word only, saith the Lord, but to the convincing them of my word, which shall have already gone forth among them.
12 Wherefore, the fruit of thy loins shall write; and the fruit of the loins of Judah shall write; and that which shall be written by the fruit of thy loins, and also that which shall be written by the fruit of the loins of Judah, shall grow together, unto the confounding of false doctrines and laying down of contentions, and establishing peace among the fruit of thy loins, and bringing them to the knowledge of their fathers in the latter days, and also to the knowledge of my covenants, saith the Lord.
13 And out of weakness he shall be made strong, in that day when my work shall commence among all my people, unto the restoring thee, O house of Israel, saith the Lord.
14 And thus prophesied Joseph, saying: Behold, that seer will the Lord bless; and they that seek to destroy him shall be confounded; for this promise, which I have obtained of the Lord, of the fruit of my loins, shall be fulfilled. Behold, I am sure of the fulfilling of this promise;
15 And his name shall be called after me; and it shall be after the name of his father. And he shall be like unto me; for the thing, which the Lord shall bring forth by his hand, by the power of the Lord shall bring my people unto salvation.
16 Yea, thus prophesied Joseph: I am sure of this thing, even as I am sure of the promise of Moses; for the Lord hath said unto me, I will preserve thy seed forever.
17 And the Lord hath said: I will raise up a Moses; and I will give power unto him in a rod; and I will give judgment unto him in writing. Yet I will not loose his tongue, that he shall speak much, for I will not make him mighty in speaking. But I will write unto him my law, by the finger of mine own hand; and I will make a spokesman for him.
18 And the Lord said unto me also: I will raise up unto the fruit of thy loins; and I will make for him a spokesman. And I, behold, I will give unto him that he shall write the writing of the fruit of thy loins, unto the fruit of thy loins; and the spokesman of thy loins shall declare it.
19 And the words which he shall write shall be the words which are expedient in my wisdom should go forth unto the fruit of thy loins. And it shall be as if the fruit of thy loins had cried unto them from the dust; for I know their faith.
20 And they shall cry from the dust; yea, even repentance unto their brethren, even after many generations have gone by them. And it shall come to pass that their cry shall go, even according to the simpleness of their words.
21 Because of their faith their words shall proceed forth out of my mouth unto their brethren who are the fruit of thy loins; and the weakness of their words will I make strong in their faith, unto the remembering of my covenant which I made unto thy fathers.
22 And now, behold, my son Joseph, after this manner did my father of old prophesy.

It is pretty standard LDS doctrine that these verses have reference to Joseph Smith. The "seer" mentioned in those verses is believed to be Joseph Smith. He is believed to be a descendant of Joseph the son of Jacob through Ephraim, not of David. As for the rest of your comments, the answer is that if you are looking for "polite conversation," you have come to the wrong place to find it! This place is not for that kind of talk.

____________

P.S.

As far as the priesthood lineage is concerned, more information is given in Section 84:

D&C 84:

6 And the sons of Moses, according to the Holy Priesthood which he received under the hand of his father-in-law, Jethro;
7 And Jethro received it under the hand of Caleb;
8 And Caleb received it under the hand of Elihu;
9 And Elihu under the hand of Jeremy;
10 And Jeremy under the hand of Gad;
11 And Gad under the hand of Esaias;
12 And Esaias received it under the hand of God.
13 Esaias also lived in the days of Abraham, and was blessed of him—
14 Which Abraham received the priesthood from Melchizedek, who received it through the lineage of his fathers, even till Noah;
15 And from Noah till Enoch, through the lineage of their fathers;
16 And from Enoch to Abel, who was slain by the conspiracy of his brother, who received the priesthood by the commandments of God, by the hand of his father Adam, who was the first man—
17 Which priesthood continueth in the church of God in all generations, and is without beginning of days or end of years.

According to the Book of Abraham, a priesthood lineage need not be literal. Those who accept the gospel and received the priesthood then literally become the seed of Abraham. So a literal descent is not a necessary precondition:

Abraham 2:

9 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee above measure, and make thy name great among all nations, and thou shalt be a blessing unto thy seed after thee, that in their hands they shall bear this ministry and Priesthood unto all nations;
10 And I will bless them through thy name; for as many as receive this Gospel shall be called after thy name, and shall be accounted thy seed, and shall rise up and bless thee, as their father;
11 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse them that curse thee; and in thee (that is, in thy Priesthood) and in thy seed (that is, thy Priesthood), for I give unto thee a promise that this right shall continue in thee, and in thy seed after thee (that is to say, the literal seed, or the seed of the body) shall all the families of the earth be blessed, even with the blessings of the Gospel, which are the blessings of salvation, even of life eternal.

D&C 84:

33 For whoso is faithful unto the obtaining these two priesthoods of which I have spoken, and the magnifying their calling, are sanctified by the Spirit unto the renewing of their bodies.
34 They become the sons of Moses and of Aaron and the seed of Abraham, and the church and kingdom, and the elect of God.

[Guest]

Hi, this discussion has already gone on in the other thread. Before I respond, I'd like to point out that you've come out swinging at me as "so unintelligent that [i] can't see something so plain and obvious..." I think we're all allowed to make mistakes, so let's point things out intelligently and see if others respond in kind rather than hurl insults from the get go. Also, though I certainly am a critical thinker, I'm not a full-on critic. I am an active member of the church, just with some very different view points than your typical TBM.

Anyways, here is the relevant discussion:

* * *

I hadn't read all the way through that thread, I only looked at the OP. Now that I have looked at it, I have noticed that my observation had already been made by others in that thread, and that you had acknowledged it. As for Joseph Smith's lineal descent is concerned, it is pretty standard LDS doctrine that he had descended from Joseph the son of Jacob that was sold into Egypt. That is taught in the Book of Mormon:

2 Nephi 3:

6 For Joseph truly testified, saying: A seer shall the Lord my God raise up, who shall be a choice seer unto the fruit of my loins.
7 Yea, Joseph truly said: Thus saith the Lord unto me: A choice seer will I raise up out of the fruit of thy loins; and he shall be esteemed highly among the fruit of thy loins. And unto him will I give commandment that he shall do a work for the fruit of thy loins, his brethren, which shall be of great worth unto them, even to the bringing of them to the knowledge of the covenants which I have made with thy fathers.
8 And I will give unto him a commandment that he shall do none other work, save the work which I shall command him. And I will make him great in mine eyes; for he shall do my work.
9 And he shall be great like unto Moses, whom I have said I would raise up unto you, to deliver my people, O house of Israel.
10 And Moses will I raise up, to deliver thy people out of the land of Egypt.
11 But a seer will I raise up out of the fruit of thy loins; and unto him will I give power to bring forth my word unto the seed of thy loins—and not to the bringing forth my word only, saith the Lord, but to the convincing them of my word, which shall have already gone forth among them.
12 Wherefore, the fruit of thy loins shall write; and the fruit of the loins of Judah shall write; and that which shall be written by the fruit of thy loins, and also that which shall be written by the fruit of the loins of Judah, shall grow together, unto the confounding of false doctrines and laying down of contentions, and establishing peace among the fruit of thy loins, and bringing them to the knowledge of their fathers in the latter days, and also to the knowledge of my covenants, saith the Lord.
13 And out of weakness he shall be made strong, in that day when my work shall commence among all my people, unto the restoring thee, O house of Israel, saith the Lord.
14 And thus prophesied Joseph, saying: Behold, that seer will the Lord bless; and they that seek to destroy him shall be confounded; for this promise, which I have obtained of the Lord, of the fruit of my loins, shall be fulfilled. Behold, I am sure of the fulfilling of this promise;
15 And his name shall be called after me; and it shall be after the name of his father. And he shall be like unto me; for the thing, which the Lord shall bring forth by his hand, by the power of the Lord shall bring my people unto salvation.
16 Yea, thus prophesied Joseph: I am sure of this thing, even as I am sure of the promise of Moses; for the Lord hath said unto me, I will preserve thy seed forever.
17 And the Lord hath said: I will raise up a Moses; and I will give power unto him in a rod; and I will give judgment unto him in writing. Yet I will not loose his tongue, that he shall speak much, for I will not make him mighty in speaking. But I will write unto him my law, by the finger of mine own hand; and I will make a spokesman for him.
18 And the Lord said unto me also: I will raise up unto the fruit of thy loins; and I will make for him a spokesman. And I, behold, I will give unto him that he shall write the writing of the fruit of thy loins, unto the fruit of thy loins; and the spokesman of thy loins shall declare it.
19 And the words which he shall write shall be the words which are expedient in my wisdom should go forth unto the fruit of thy loins. And it shall be as if the fruit of thy loins had cried unto them from the dust; for I know their faith.
20 And they shall cry from the dust; yea, even repentance unto their brethren, even after many generations have gone by them. And it shall come to pass that their cry shall go, even according to the simpleness of their words.
21 Because of their faith their words shall proceed forth out of my mouth unto their brethren who are the fruit of thy loins; and the weakness of their words will I make strong in their faith, unto the remembering of my covenant which I made unto thy fathers.
22 And now, behold, my son Joseph, after this manner did my father of old prophesy.

It is pretty standard LDS doctrine that these verses have reference to Joseph Smith. The "seer" mentioned in those verses is believed to be Joseph Smith. He is believed to be a descendant of Joseph the son of Jacob through Ephraim, not of David. As for the rest of your comments, the answer is that if you are looking for "polite conversation," you have come to the wrong place to find it! This place is not for that kind of talk.

____________

P.S.

As far as the priesthood lineage is concerned, more information is given in Section 84:

D&C 84:

6 And the sons of Moses, according to the Holy Priesthood which he received under the hand of his father-in-law, Jethro;
7 And Jethro received it under the hand of Caleb;
8 And Caleb received it under the hand of Elihu;
9 And Elihu under the hand of Jeremy;
10 And Jeremy under the hand of Gad;
11 And Gad under the hand of Esaias;
12 And Esaias received it under the hand of God.
13 Esaias also lived in the days of Abraham, and was blessed of him—
14 Which Abraham received the priesthood from Melchizedek, who received it through the lineage of his fathers, even till Noah;
15 And from Noah till Enoch, through the lineage of their fathers;
16 And from Enoch to Abel, who was slain by the conspiracy of his brother, who received the priesthood by the commandments of God, by the hand of his father Adam, who was the first man—
17 Which priesthood continueth in the church of God in all generations, and is without beginning of days or end of years.

According to the Book of Abraham, a priesthood lineage need not be literal. Those who accept the gospel and received the priesthood then literally become the seed of Abraham. So a literal descent is not a necessary precondition:

Abraham 2:

9 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee above measure, and make thy name great among all nations, and thou shalt be a blessing unto thy seed after thee, that in their hands they shall bear this ministry and Priesthood unto all nations;
10 And I will bless them through thy name; for as many as receive this Gospel shall be called after thy name, and shall be accounted thy seed, and shall rise up and bless thee, as their father;
11 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse them that curse thee; and in thee (that is, in thy Priesthood) and in thy seed (that is, thy Priesthood), for I give unto thee a promise that this right shall continue in thee, and in thy seed after thee (that is to say, the literal seed, or the seed of the body) shall all the families of the earth be blessed, even with the blessings of the Gospel, which are the blessings of salvation, even of life eternal.

D&C 84:

33 For whoso is faithful unto the obtaining these two priesthoods of which I have spoken, and the magnifying their calling, are sanctified by the Spirit unto the renewing of their bodies.
34 They become the sons of Moses and of Aaron and the seed of Abraham, and the church and kingdom, and the elect of God.

Most everyone is familiar with the idea that Joseph Smith's lineage came through Joseph of Egypt presented in these verses. I didn't quote them because they are so familiar. In my discussion I presented evidence, that you didn't address in your dismissal, that there was a belief in early Mormonism that Joseph Smith was a descendant of King David.

Here is the gist of it:

Joseph Smith prophesied "the throne and kingdom of David is to be taken from him and given to another by the name of David in the last days, raised up out of his lineage." This prophecy can be linked to another prophecy Joseph Smith made about one of his offspring, where he claimed that his unborn son, David, would be a "church president and king over Israel." When viewing both of these prophecies together it becomes apparent that Joseph Smith believed that his son David was to be the David, from the lineage of King David, who would be given the throne and kingdom in the last days.

Additionally, the verses in D&C 113 about the descendant of both Jesse (father of King David) and of Ephraim are probably connected with this idea, likely either referring to Joseph Smith himself or possibly conceived by Joseph Smith as referring to one of his descendants (i.e. David, though that idea couldn't really have come to explicit fruition until he decided to name one of his sons David). Here are the relevant verses:

"What is the rod spoken of in the first verse of the 11th chapter of Isaiah, that should come of the Stem of Jesse? Behold, thus saith the Lord: It is a servant in the hands of Christ, who is partly a descendant of Jesse as well as of Ephraim, or of the house of Joseph, on whom there is laid much power."

The application of the verses in Isaiah to Joseph Smith had already occurred several years earlier through allusion in a blessing (recorded in the patriarchal blessing book) given to Joseph Smith by Oliver Cowdery. It reads, "The Lord make thee as Joseph the Seer, who was of the house of Ephraim, the brother of Manasseh: the Lord do thee good and bring peace and blessings opun [upon] thy house as he brought them upon the house of Joseph the Seer, who was raised up of a choice vine from the stem of Jacob through the root of Joseph, even that Joseph who was separated from his brethren.." (my emphasis)

The language here is clearly taken from the verses in Isaiah, though the exact lineage is changed to match the commonly understood idea, that Joseph Smith was a descendant of Joseph. However, this allusion demonstrates that the association of Joseph Smith with these verses in Isaiah was already in the air in 1835.

However, the strongest piece of evidence, or the smoking gun, is what I started with, the pairing of Joseph Smith' prophecy that a David in the last days from the lineage of King David would be given King David's kingdom and throne and Joseph Smith' other prophecy that his unborn son, David Hyrum Smith, would be a "church president and king over Israel."

[_grindael]

I wrote about Joseph as "David the King" here... viewtopic.php?p=1019084#p1019084

I really need to get back to this thread and finish it... sigh...

[_Benjamin Seeker]

I wrote about Joseph as "David the King" here... viewtopic.php?p=1019084#p1019084

I really need to get back to this thread and finish it... sigh...

Lots of fantastic context there. Wow. Thanks, Grindael. Joseph Smith had some pretty big ideas. That's for sure.

[_zeezrom]

Zeezrom, if pork can be the "other white and delightsome meat" then Royal Family Theology should be considered, as the Reformed Egyptians say, Mu Shu good.

hahahaha!

Love it.

pork is indeed white and delightsome. I'd venture to say it might even have more to offer than the deep red.

[_zerinus]

Most everyone is familiar with the idea that Joseph Smith's lineage came through Joseph of Egypt presented in these verses. I didn't quote them because they are so familiar. In my discussion I presented evidence, that you didn't address in your dismissal, that there was a belief in early Mormonism that Joseph Smith was a descendant of King David.

Here is the gist of it:

Joseph Smith prophesied "the throne and kingdom of David is to be taken from him and given to another by the name of David in the last days, raised up out of his lineage." This prophecy can be linked to another prophecy Joseph Smith made about one of his offspring, where he claimed that his unborn son, David, would be a "church president and king over Israel." When viewing both of these prophecies together it becomes apparent that Joseph Smith believed that his son David was to be the David, from the lineage of King David, who would be given the throne and kingdom in the last days.

Additionally, the verses in D&C 113 about the descendant of both Jesse (father of King David) and of Ephraim are probably connected with this idea, likely either referring to Joseph Smith himself or possibly conceived by Joseph Smith as referring to one of his descendants (i.e. David, though that idea couldn't really have come to explicit fruition until he decided to name one of his sons David). Here are the relevant verses:

"What is the rod spoken of in the first verse of the 11th chapter of Isaiah, that should come of the Stem of Jesse? Behold, thus saith the Lord: It is a servant in the hands of Christ, who is partly a descendant of Jesse as well as of Ephraim, or of the house of Joseph, on whom there is laid much power."

The application of the verses in Isaiah to Joseph Smith had already occurred several years earlier through allusion in a blessing (recorded in the patriarchal blessing book) given to Joseph Smith by Oliver Cowdery. It reads, "The Lord make thee as Joseph the Seer, who was of the house of Ephraim, the brother of Manasseh: the Lord do thee good and bring peace and blessings opun [upon] thy house as he brought them upon the house of Joseph the Seer, who was raised up of a choice vine from the stem of Jacob through the root of Joseph, even that Joseph who was separated from his brethren.." (my emphasis)

The language here is clearly taken from the verses in Isaiah, though the exact lineage is changed to match the commonly understood idea, that Joseph Smith was a descendant of Joseph. However, this allusion demonstrates that the association of Joseph Smith with these verses in Isaiah was already in the air in 1835.

However, the strongest piece of evidence, or the smoking gun, is what I started with, the pairing of Joseph Smith' prophecy that a David in the last days from the lineage of King David would be given King David's kingdom and throne and Joseph Smith' other prophecy that his unborn son, David Hyrum Smith, would be a "church president and king over Israel."

I think there is an awful lot of speculation involved in all of this, which is not conducive to sound doctrine. The best solution (from a believer's point of view) is to stay close to what the scriptures say, and avoiding speculation in areas where the scriptures are not clear. It is never profitable to try to resolve scriptural ambiguity with speculation—speaking from a believer's point of view. For those who do not believe in the truth of scripture, including LDS scripture, anything goes. They can speculate as much as they want. But I am not obliged to take it seriously. I hold what is in the Book of Mormon, D&C, and PoGP as divinely revealed truth, so I don't need to speculate about that. And where there are ambiguities in that revealed scripture, the best solution is to suspend judgement until more truth is revealed, rather than engage in speculation.

[_grindael]

I hold what is in the Book of Mormon, D&C, and PoGP as divinely revealed truth, so I don't need to speculate about that.

It's all you do.

[_Benjamin Seeker]

Most everyone is familiar with the idea that Joseph Smith's lineage came through Joseph of Egypt presented in these verses. I didn't quote them because they are so familiar. In my discussion I presented evidence, that you didn't address in your dismissal, that there was a belief in early Mormonism that Joseph Smith was a descendant of King David.

Here is the gist of it:

Joseph Smith prophesied "the throne and kingdom of David is to be taken from him and given to another by the name of David in the last days, raised up out of his lineage." This prophecy can be linked to another prophecy Joseph Smith made about one of his offspring, where he claimed that his unborn son, David, would be a "church president and king over Israel." When viewing both of these prophecies together it becomes apparent that Joseph Smith believed that his son David was to be the David, from the lineage of King David, who would be given the throne and kingdom in the last days.

Additionally, the verses in D&C 113 about the descendant of both Jesse (father of King David) and of Ephraim are probably connected with this idea, likely either referring to Joseph Smith himself or possibly conceived by Joseph Smith as referring to one of his descendants (i.e. David, though that idea couldn't really have come to explicit fruition until he decided to name one of his sons David). Here are the relevant verses:

"What is the rod spoken of in the first verse of the 11th chapter of Isaiah, that should come of the Stem of Jesse? Behold, thus saith the Lord: It is a servant in the hands of Christ, who is partly a descendant of Jesse as well as of Ephraim, or of the house of Joseph, on whom there is laid much power."

The application of the verses in Isaiah to Joseph Smith had already occurred several years earlier through allusion in a blessing (recorded in the patriarchal blessing book) given to Joseph Smith by Oliver Cowdery. It reads, "The Lord make thee as Joseph the Seer, who was of the house of Ephraim, the brother of Manasseh: the Lord do thee good and bring peace and blessings opun [upon] thy house as he brought them upon the house of Joseph the Seer, who was raised up of a choice vine from the stem of Jacob through the root of Joseph, even that Joseph who was separated from his brethren.." (my emphasis)

The language here is clearly taken from the verses in Isaiah, though the exact lineage is changed to match the commonly understood idea, that Joseph Smith was a descendant of Joseph. However, this allusion demonstrates that the association of Joseph Smith with these verses in Isaiah was already in the air in 1835.

However, the strongest piece of evidence, or the smoking gun, is what I started with, the pairing of Joseph Smith' prophecy that a David in the last days from the lineage of King David would be given King David's kingdom and throne and Joseph Smith' other prophecy that his unborn son, David Hyrum Smith, would be a "church president and king over Israel."

I think there is an awful lot of speculation involved in all of this, which is not conducive to sound doctrine. The best solution (from a believer's point of view) is to stay close to what the scriptures say, and avoiding speculation in areas where the scriptures are not clear. It is never profitable to try to resolve scriptural ambiguity with speculation—speaking from a believer's point of view. For those who do not believe in the truth of scripture, including LDS scripture, anything goes. They can speculate as much as they want. But I am not obliged to take it seriously. I hold what is in the Book of Mormon, D&C, and PoGP as divinely revealed truth, so I don't need to speculate about that. And where there are ambiguities in that revealed scripture, the best solution is to suspend judgement until more truth is revealed, rather than engage in speculation.

I agree that it would be speculative from a doctrinal standpoint, and I'm not trying to establish doctrine or anything along those lines. I'm approaching the subject from a historical perspective, and I think I'm on pretty solid ground in that arena.

[_grindael]

Doctrine is what is TAUGHT by Mormon "prophets". BINDING Doctrine is what is in the Standard Works. So don't let Zero fool ya. He doesn't know what he is talking about and never did.

[_grindael]

Actually, here is something mindblowing concerning Jo's "lineage",

Years ago, I came across a Mormon Fair Wiki Article that tried to explain why, even though in the Book of Mormon it says Lehi was a descendent of Manasseh, (Alma 10:3) that the Stick of EPHRIAM mentioned in Ezekial 37 still could be the Book of Mormon. If Lehi was not a descendent of EPHRIAM, I wondered how can it be a record of Ephriam’s descendents, when it is actually a record of Manasseh’s descendents? Their answer:

“So what does the Book of Mormon have to do with the reunification of Israel and how does Lehi, descendant of Manasseh, fit into a prophecy of a “stick of Ephraim”?

“Since the Book of Mormon makes clear that Lehi was a descendant of Manasseh, brother of Ephraim (Alma 10:3), it is less than straight forward to identify it as the “stick of Ephraim”. Nevertheless some LDS general authorities have made such an attempt. Orson Pratt claimed another ancestor of the Book of Mormon peoples, Ishmael, was an Ephraimite in 1850. The late reminiscences of Franklin D. Richards and Erastus Snow attributed this teaching to Joseph Smith and the missing 116 pages. Joseph Fielding Smith additionally emphasized that Joseph Smith was a descendant of Ephraim and noted that this fits well with the alternative phrasing found in v. 19 of “the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim.”

“For Latter-day Saints this is an example of “likening the scriptures unto ourselves,” as Nephi suggested (1 Nephi 19:23). The Book of Mormon is the restoration scripture for modern-day Ephraim—the people of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints—and a message that they take to the world so that Israel may be gathered a final time in preparation for the second coming of the Lord.

Although Ezekiel was speaking directly of reunification, Latter-day Saints have applied their own modern application of this passage as it relates to the Book of Mormon’s role in the restoration of the gospel and the gathering of Israel.”

Now this from the Book of Abraham:

“Now Pharaoh, being of that lineage by which he could not have the right of priesthood, notwithstanding … would fain claim it from Noah through Ham … [Noah] blessed him with the blessings of the earth, and … wisdom, but cursed him as pertaining to the priesthood.” -Pearl of Great Price, Abr. 1:26-27

The Bible says that Ephriam and Manasseh were both descended from the line of Pharaohs that could not hold the Priesthood:

“ASENATH [AS ih nath] the Egyptian wife of Joseph and the mother of Manasseh and Ephraim (Genesis 41:45). Asenath was the daughter of Poti-Pherah, priest of On. Pharaoh himself may have arranged the marriage between Joseph and Asenath to help Joseph adjust to life in Egypt” (Nelsons Bible Dictionary – Asenath)

How could the Nephites then hold the Priesthood when the Book of Abraham says anyone from that lineage is disqualified by commandment from God?

So, is the Book of Mormon correct, that they descended from Manasseh, or are the GA’s opinions true, which are not supported in LDS scripture? How does this sit with the many opinions regarding the LGT? If the same GA’s were wrong about that, how can the claims about Ephraim be correct? Fair discounts Pratt’s claims on HGT, but use his ‘opinions’ to help support the claims about Ephraim. Seems a double-standard to me.

Also, if Lehi was a descendent of Manasseh, then how could he hold the Priesthood, since he would have the tainted blood of the Pharaohs?

For that matter, how could Smith himself not be disqualified under the same terms since he was a descendant of Ephraim?

Remember:

“…No one known to have in his veins negro blood, (it matters not how remote a degree) can either have the priesthood in any degree or the blessings of the temple of God; no matter how otherwise worthy he may be” (“Extract from George F. Richards’ Record of Decisions by the Council of the First Presidency and the Twelve Apostles,” in the GAS papers).

You see how ridiculous all of this is? Yet, we have "prophet" after "prophet" claiming Jo was descended from Ephraim and that he could have the "Priesthood" yet the blacks could not who had ONE DROP of the same blood that Smith himself actually had. Mormonism is built on a house of lies.