Revisiting Quakers on the Moon

[_mentalgymnast]

I didn't call them stupid, you did. You just don't realize it.

I don't believe I did.

Regards,
MG

[_mentalgymnast]

Why claim certain hieroglyphs mean this unless God is telling you, and why would God be that dumb to say something clearly not true and would make Joseph look like the an obvious fraud?

That's a good question. If the materials that Joseph had access to acted in some way as a modeling, imaging, or connecting mnemonic device(and all that this may entail) used as a catalyst to receive revelation, would that not allow for Joseph's own ideas to slip and/or come through the filter also? Does the revelation have to be perfect and without error? I suppose it's a matter of just how much of Joseph's mind is allowed to come into the Book of Abraham project, along with any error that would be part of that process.

One would hope to think that the 'scripture' would be unadulterated and free from any error. But that appears not to be the case with some of the one to one correlations between the facsimiles and the Book of Abraham text and explanations. To be honest, I don't have an explanation that I am 100% on board with. The Book of Abraham in some ways is an enigma to me. The fact that it has some really cool doctrine/theology and yet has the hand prints of error is a conundrum. I haven't been able to work it all out in my own mind to my own satisfaction.

It's not hard to understand if you are open minded enough. Do I accept the obvious evidence or do I make up other explanations that make no sense.

Or do we put some things on the back burner looking for further light and knowledge? I know that sounds like a cop out...but that's where I'm at in regards to the problems/issues with the Book of Abraham.

I think I understand the concerns and validate where you're coming from.

Regards,
MG

[_Shulem]

To be honest, I don't have an explanation that I am 100% on board with. The Book of Abraham in some ways is an enigma to me.

You are going to lose your testimony.

I haven't been able to work it all out in my own mind to my own satisfaction.

You will lose your testimony.

[_Shulem]

Or do we put some things on the back burner looking for further light and knowledge? I know that sounds like a cop out...but that's where I'm at in regards to the problems/issues with the Book of Abraham.

Your testimony is toast.

[_Themis]

That's a good question. If the materials that Joseph had access to acted in some way as a modeling, imaging, or connecting mnemonic device(and all that this may entail) used as a catalyst to receive revelation, would that not allow for Joseph's own ideas to slip and/or come through the filter also? Does the revelation have to be perfect and without error? I suppose it's a matter of just how much of Joseph's mind is allowed to come into the Book of Abraham project, along with any error that would be part of that process.

Joseph clearly identified the materials as the record of Abraham and Joseph. Why do that if God didn't tell you that? Why assign certain text to each hieroglyphs if God didn't tell you to? Joseph didn't need a catalyst to come up with the Book Of Moses, and why would God give revelation/translations to something God knows is not about Abraham, and that it will make Joseph look like an obvious fraud? You need better explanations. You are also trying to muddy the water like you did with the speculation thing not realizing it makes things worse in trusting any of the text he creates.

[_Shulem]

Or do we put some things on the back burner looking for further light and knowledge? I know that sounds like a cop out...but that's where I'm at in regards to the problems/issues with the Book of Abraham.

Your testimony is toast.

"I know that sounds like a cop out"

You mean it is a cop out to which I agree.

[_Philo Sofee]

MG
used as a catalyst to receive revelation, would that not allow for Joseph's own ideas to slip and/or come through the filter also? Does the revelation have to be perfect and without error? I suppose it's a matter of just how much of Joseph's mind is allowed to come into the Book of Abraham project, along with any error that would be part of that process.

What you miss is that it is entirely error. There is literally nothing that translated out from the hieroglyphs correctly. How much of his mind? It is his in totality. And he didn't know what he was doing? Are you deliberately being stupidly obtuse?