A few questions for Shulem

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_Shulem
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Re: A few questions for Shulem

Post by _Shulem »

Jesse Pinkman wrote:I think that’s an excellent idea! Philo? Comments?

He should edit his articles to include blue letter commentary within the framework of the text. No need to rewrite the article, simply supply comments as needed which refute, clarify, and challenge his earlier work.

Sounds like he could have a blast critiquing his past work from a whole new perspective. Well, Kerry, you really need to do that.
_Philo Sofee
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Re: A few questions for Shulem

Post by _Philo Sofee »

Damn! I think you're right, I really DO need to do that! But that's a lot of work......ayiyi......
Dr CamNC4Me
"Dr. Peterson and his Callithumpian cabal of BYU idiots have been marginalized by their own inevitable irrelevancy defending a fraud."
_Shulem
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Re: A few questions for Shulem

Post by _Shulem »

Philo Sofee wrote:Damn! I think you're right, I really DO need to do that! But that's a lot of work......ayiyi......


It's not going to be nearly as much work as what it took to create and edit the originals in the first place. All you're doing is inserting statements and choice images within the text that reflect current thinking and essentially debunk the old stuff. You can elect to use some professional citations and quotes to add spice but for the most part just correct your old work like a school teacher grading a paper but leave the original content intact. You can even do it in stages and go back and add more later. But by all means get started now and present new commentary that aligns with conventional Egyptology.

It will be fun! Just do it. Pick one of your favorite articles and critique it anew.
_Shulem
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Re: A few questions for Shulem

Post by _Shulem »

Shulem wrote:In conclusion: The apologists are stuck with questions that have no answers and thus rely on faith and testimony in their prophet while the critics sustain modern Egyptology which proves conclusively that Smith's work was a fraud. There is a big difference between the two.


The same holds true for professional LDS researchers that find themselves having to put faith and testimony ahead of Egyptology and the damning evidence against the Book of Abraham. Consider for example, Jay M. Todd; Saga of the Book of Abraham 1969:

“The issue is a confusing one at present.” P. 253

“These are major questions. Perhaps their answers will not be known until that great day when all things are truly known.” P. 289

“In time perhaps we shall know. But this much we do know — we do not know the answer now.” P.290

“Perhaps this view is correct. Perhaps it is not. Only time will tell. P.314

“One wonders, therefore, if the Prophet did indeed think he knew the identity of one of the mummies he had acquired.” P.316

“Obviously, these are questions and relationships that are beyond solution at the present time.” P. 317

“So much for what is public information of the ‘Valuable Discovery.’ Again, its ultimate meaning and value are not known.” P. 318

“Once more, only time will tell.” P. 319

“Only time will reveal the soundness of its conclusions.” P. 380

~ Thus faith and testimony of the prophet Joseph Smith Trump science and Egyptology
_mentalgymnast
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Re: A few questions for Shulem

Post by _mentalgymnast »

Fence Sitter wrote:I wonder if MG sees the irony in quoting that article by Jeff Lindsay to defend the Book of Abraham.

From Lindsay's article:

Another major resource on the Book of Abraham is Kerry Shirts' Book of Abraham articles, featuring detailed refutations of many common arguments, and insightful analysis of evidence for the Book of Abraham. One excellent article, for example, is Kerry Shirts' discussion of a Book of Abraham video from I.R.R.


Maybe we should ask Philo Sofee what he thinks of Kerry Shirt's old arguments to defend the Book of Abraham?


That would be interesting I think. Are there arguments that he made that may have run contrary to Shulem's? If so, was he simply ignorant of 'the truth', or did he have some explanation that he believed made sense and/or was reasonable at the time? For example, Fac.3 has been brought up repeatedly. How did Kerry Shirts explain or tease out the unknowns and/or issues in regards to that?

It's been a long time since I purchased and looked at his DVD set on the Book of Abraham. I suppose they may have been a waste of my money. :wink:

Regards,
MG
_Philo Sofee
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Re: A few questions for Shulem

Post by _Philo Sofee »

No you didn't waste yer money MG, you got to see me.... :wink:
Dr CamNC4Me
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_Philo Sofee
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Re: A few questions for Shulem

Post by _Philo Sofee »

MG
How did Kerry Shirts explain or tease out the unknowns and/or issues in regards to that?


With really lopsided Nibley apologetics that's how. I was trying so hard to be another Hugh Nibley I never bothered to read the other side, the actual Egyptologists, except as Nibley's lens focused on them. My research was derivative at best, and ignorant of the reality of the situation at worse. I was never so wrong. Sigh...... all those damn years, never to be recovered......
Dr CamNC4Me
"Dr. Peterson and his Callithumpian cabal of BYU idiots have been marginalized by their own inevitable irrelevancy defending a fraud."
_mentalgymnast
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Re: A few questions for Shulem

Post by _mentalgymnast »

Philo Sofee wrote:No you didn't waste yer money MG, you got to see me.... :wink:


And the year you went around with your video camera filming everything and everyone. That was classic. Never seen anything like it before or since.

I think some folks might have thought you were a bit 'off', but I thought it was kind of funny...even if a bit on the wacky side. :smile:

Would you mind sharing what Nibley thought about the Fac.3 issue and what you believed at the time?

Regards,
MG
_Lemmie
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Re: A few questions for Shulem

Post by _Lemmie »

Philo Sofee wrote:
With really lopsided Nibley apologetics that's how. I was trying so hard to be another Hugh Nibley I never bothered to read the other side, the actual Egyptologists, except as Nibley's lens focused on them. My research was derivative at best, and ignorant of the reality of the situation at worse. I was never so wrong. Sigh...... all those damn years, never to be recovered......

No regrets--you learned valuable lessons! Thanks for sharing the process with us, it's fascinating to see.
_Polygamy-Porter
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Re: A few questions for Shulem

Post by _Polygamy-Porter »

mentalgymnast wrote:
Philo Sofee wrote:No you didn't waste yer money MG, you got to see me.... :wink:


And the year you went around with your video camera filming everything and everyone. That was classic. Never seen anything like it before or since

I know! Annnnd look at him now.

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