Facsimile No. 3 printing plate reveals jackal head Anubis

[_Philo Sofee]

You ought to alert Ritner of this. He and thee are the bane of apologists. What a tag team you two would make!

[_aussieguy55]

It has always puzzled me how LDS writers respond to difficult information. Israeli archaeologist Israel Finkelstein in The Bible Unearthed argues that the evidence shows that the Exodus and Conquest did not happen. If this is so is there also evidence that the stories of Patriarchs e.g. Abraham are myth also.I can vaguely recall some mention of an anachronism in the story of Abraham regarding domesticated camels. The time was too early for domesticated camels. So we have an ancient myth and a modern myth.

[_Shulem]

You ought to alert Ritner of this. He and thee are the bane of apologists. What a tag team you two would make!

It's going to be a merry and wonderful Smithmas when my new FACSIMILE NO. 3 website hits the fan!

I'm putting on one of those free website builders and having a fun time doing it. It's a refreshing and whole new approach in demonstrating the ridiculous claims made by Joseph Smith. I can tell you now, it's a winner and it's going to make waves. I know just how to cut the head off the snake!

You'll see, soon enough. I'll show you how it's done, bro.

[_Philo Sofee]

It has always puzzled me how LDS writers respond to difficult information. Israeli archaeologist Israel Finkelstein in The Bible Unearthed argues that the evidence shows that the Exodus and Conquest did not happen. If this is so is there also evidence that the stories of Patriarchs e.g. Abraham are myth also.I can vaguely recall some mention of an anachronism in the story of Abraham regarding domesticated camels. The time was too early for domesticated camels. So we have an ancient myth and a modern myth.

And two of the most powerful texts demonstrating Abraham a myth along the lines of Oedipus, Antigone, Ulysses, Hercules, Clytemnestra, Dionysius, Centaurs, and Cyclops, are Thomas L. Thompson, "The Historicity of the Patriarchal Narratives, the Quest for the Historical Abraham," and John Van Seters, "Abraham in History and Tradition."

[_aussieguy55]

Which of those two books would be best to read?

[_Fence Sitter]

And two of the most powerful texts demonstrating Abraham a myth along the lines of Oedipus, Antigone, Ulysses, Hercules, Clytemnestra, Dionysius, Centaurs, and Cyclops, are Thomas L. Thompson, "The Historicity of the Patriarchal Narratives, the Quest for the Historical Abraham," and John Van Seters, "Abraham in History and Tradition."

Time and time again we see defenders dismissing written information from the 19th century because it was a long time ago. "History is simply inaccurate or we can never know exactly what happened 150-200 years ago". Yet these same people depend on an actual Abraham doing exactly what the Bible claims, claims which are based on accounts recorded centuries, if not millennia after the purported event. If we do not know for sure what Joseph Smith did, we certainly do not know if Abraham even existed, let alone did what the Bible claims he did. We clearly don't know anything about a guy who was supposed to have lived 4000 or more years ago and a thousand years before anyone actually wrote down anything about him.

It's a house of cards.

[_Philo Sofee]

Which of those two books would be best to read?

I found the actual literary analysis and comparison of texts to be better in Van Seters, but the overall archaeological evidence in Thompson is truly second to absolutely none. His masterful takedown and refutation of the Albright school and assumptions that archaeology proves historic patriarchs is astonishing how he does so with valid evidence. There was no Abraham, no Adam, Eve, Noah, Moses, Methuselah, Enoch, Nimrod, Isaac, or Jacob as historical people. It's all story. As story it has actual good instructional value. As real history literally none. To historicise fiction as literally happening is redundantly wrong to do as has been done.

[_Philo Sofee]

And two of the most powerful texts demonstrating Abraham a myth along the lines of Oedipus, Antigone, Ulysses, Hercules, Clytemnestra, Dionysius, Centaurs, and Cyclops, are Thomas L. Thompson, "The Historicity of the Patriarchal Narratives, the Quest for the Historical Abraham," and John Van Seters, "Abraham in History and Tradition."

Time and time again we see defenders dismissing written information from the 19th century because it was a long time ago. "History is simply inaccurate or we can never know exactly what happened 150-200 years ago". Yet these same people depend on an actual Abraham doing exactly what the Bible claims, claims which are based on accounts recorded centuries, if not millennia after the purported event. If we do not know for sure what Joseph Smith did, we certainly do not know if Abraham even existed, let alone did what the Bible claims he did. We clearly don't know anything about a guy who was supposed to have lived 4000 or more years ago and a thousand years before anyone actually wrote down anything about him.

It's a house of cards.

A most excellent, succinct analysis of a fatality in their thinking. Thanks for sharing this.

[_aussieguy55]

I remember when some LDS scholars like Nibley used Dr Albright a lot. Amazing how over a period of time a theory becomes redundant.

When will your site be up Shulem? My grandchildren will probably ask what I am looking at and want me to find a cartoon. If I have never discovered the Book of Abraham problem my 4 daughters might now be wearing funny underwear instead of relaxing at the beach wearing more appropriate wear.

[_Gaelan_Ainsworth]

They have never dealt with something like this before and will be broadsided so much they won't know what to say or how to react. What will they do, attack Joseph Smith himself? That is what they will have to do in order to defend their own views. Throw Joseph Smith under the bus and run him over.

It's win win for me and a big lose for them. They ARE going to be so sorry. Just wait.

I don't think throwing Joseph under the bus is the only answer here. If I were tasked with the defense of this, I would throw Hedlock under the bus. Create some spiel on how Hedlock was swayed by evil forces during the creation of the plate, and was encouraged to deface it with inaccurate images to try the faith of those that look upon it. So mortified was Joseph Smith on discovery he invoked the power of God, spake to Reuben that he has transgressed, etc. End result Reuben is saved, the evil influence is driven away and he fixes his defaced plate.

Something along those lines anyway. Hedlock's legacy is slightly harmed, but overall the narrative is protected.