LittleNipper wrote:Absolutely, and let us include Luke also...
"Absolutely" according to Christians ONLY but not according to the Jews. The Jews do not accept the wild interpretation made up by Christians. Let's not forget that it's the Jews that wrote that verse in the first place and they get the final word. Christians are Jewish apostates that perverted Isaiah's writings. Jews today don't believe in the Christian interpretation or writings of Luke.
Events surrounding the birth of Jesus in chronological order---gleaned from Matthew and Luke
During the time of Herod king of Judea there was a priest named Zechariah, who belonged to the priestly division of Abijah. His wife Elizabeth was also a descendant of Aaron. Both of them were righteous in God's eyes, observing all the Lord’s commands and decrees blamelessly. However, they were childless because Elizabeth was unable to conceive, and they were both very old. Once when Zechariah’s division was on duty and he was serving as priest before God, he was chosen by lot (according to the priesthood custom) to enter the temple of the Lord and burn incense. And when the time for the burning of incense came, all the assembled worshipers were praying outside.
Suddenly, an angel of the Lord appeared to him, standing at the right side of the altar of incense. When Zechariah saw him, he was startled and was gripped with fear. But the angel said to him: “Do not be upset, Zechariah --- your prayer has been heard. Your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you are to name him John. He will be a joy and delightful for you, and many will rejoice because of his birth, for he will be great in the sight of the Lord. He is never to drink wine or any fermented drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit even before his birth. He will bring many of the people of Israel back to the Lord their God. And he will move about before the Lord, in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the parents toward their children and the disobedient towards the wisdom of the righteous—to prepare a people for the Lord.”
Zechariah asked the angel, “How can I believe this? I am an old man and my wife is well along in years.” The angel answered him, “I am Gabriel. I stand in God's presence, and I have been sent to speak to you and to tell you this good news. And now you will be quiet and not able to speak until the day this transpires, because you didn't believe my words, which will come true in due time.”
Meanwhile, the people were waiting for Zechariah and wondering why he remained so long in the temple. When he came out, he could not talk. They realized he had seen a vision in the temple, for he kept gesturing to them but remained unable to speak. When his time of service was completed, he returned home. After this his wife Elizabeth became pregnant and for 5 months remained in seclusion. “The Lord has done this for me,” she said. “In these days he has shown his favor and taken away my disgrace among the people.”
In the 6th month of Elizabeth’s pregnancy, God sent the angel Gabriel this time to Nazareth, a town in Galilee, to a virgin pledged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of David. This virgin was named Mary. The angel went to her and said, “Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you.” Mary was greatly upset at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this could represent. However, the angel said to her, “Don't fear, Mary! You have found favor with God. You will conceive and give birth to a son, and you are to name him Jesus. He will be mighty and will be called the Most High's Son. The Lord God will give him the ancestral throne of his great --- grandfather David, and he will reign over Jacob’s descendants forever; His kingdom will be eternal.”
“How is this possible,” Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?” The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come over you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called God's Son. Even Elizabeth your relative is going to have a child in her old age, and she who was called barren is in her sixth month. For no declaration from God will ever fail.”
“I am the Lord’s servant,” Mary answered. “May your word to me be fulfilled.” Then the angel departed. Now Mary (Elizabeth's niece) was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they consummated, she was found to be already pregnant. Because Joseph her husband was faithful to the law, and yet did not want to expose her to public ridicule, he was considering to divorce her quietly. But after considering this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, “Joseph great ---- grandson of David, do not worry about taking Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. She will give birth to a son, and you are to name him Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins.” All this took happened to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet: “A virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Emmanuel” (meaning “God with us”). When Joseph woke up, he did what the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took Mary home as his wife.
About that time Mary got ready and hurried to a town in the hill country of Judea, where she entered Zechariah’s home and greeted Elizabeth. When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. In a loud voice Elizabeth exclaimed: “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the child you will bear! But why am I so favored, that the mother of my Lord should visit me? As soon as the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy. Blessed is she who has believed that the Lord would fulfill his promises to her!”
And Mary said: “My soul glorifies the Lord and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior, for He has been considerate of the humble state of His servant. From now on all generations will call me blessed, for the Mighty One has done great things for me --- holy is His name. His mercy extends to those who regard Him, from generation to generation. He has performed mighty deeds with His arm. He scattered those who are proud in their inmost thoughts. He has dethroned rulers, but has lifted up the humble. He has filled the hungry with good things but has sent the rich away empty. He has helped His servant Israel, remembering to be merciful to Abraham and his descendants forever, just as He promised our ancestors.”
Mary stayed with Elizabeth for about 3 months and then returned home.
When it was time for Elizabeth to have her baby, she gave birth to a son. Her neighbors and relatives heard that the Lord had shown her great mercy, and they shared her joy. On the 8th day they came to circumcise the child, and they were going to name him after his father Zechariah, but his mother spoke up and said, “No! He is to be called John.” They said to her, “There is no one among your relatives who has that name.” Then they made signs to his father, to find out what he would like to name the child. Zechariah wanted a writing tablet, and to everyone’s astonishment he wrote, “His name is John.” Immediately his mouth was opened and his tongue set free, and he began talking, praising God. All the neighbors were filled with awe, and throughout the hill country of Judea people were talking about all these things. Everyone who heard this wondered about it, asking, “What then is this child going to become?” For the Lord’s hand was with him.
John's father Zechariah was filled with the Holy Spirit and prophesied: “Praise be to the Lord, the God of Israel, because He has come to His people and redeemed them. He has raised up a horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David (as He spoke through His holy prophets of long ago), salvation from our enemies and from the hand of all who hate us — to show mercy to our ancestors and to remember His holy covenant, the oath He swore to our father Abraham: to rescue us from the hand of our enemies, and to enable us to serve Him without fear in holiness and righteousness before Him all our days. And you, my son, will be called a prophet of the Most High; for you will go on before the Lord to establish the way for him, to give his people the knowledge of salvation through the forgiveness of their sins, because of the tender mercy of our God, by which the rising sun will come to us from heaven enlightening those living in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the path of peace.”
In those days Caesar Augustus issued a decree that a census should be taken of the entire Roman Empire. (This was the first census that took place while Quirinius was governor of Syria). And everyone went to their own home town to register. So Joseph also went up from the town of Nazareth in Galilee to Judea, to Bethlehem the town of David, because he belonged to the house and linage of David. He went there to register with Mary, who was pledged to be married to him and was pregnant. While they were there, the time arrived for the baby to be born, and she gave birth to her firstborn, a son. She bound him in cloths and placed him in a feeding trough, because there was no guest room available for them.
And there were shepherds living out in the fields nearby, keeping watch over their flocks at night. An angel of the Lord appeared to them, and the glory of the Lord glowed around them, and they were terrified. But the angel said to them, “Do not be scared. I bring you good news that will cause great joy for all the people. Today in the town of David a Savior has been born to you; he is the Messiah, the Lord. This will be a sign to you: You will find a baby bound in cloths and lying in a feeding trough.” Instantly a great company of the heavenly host appeared with the angel, praising God and saying, “Glory to God in the highest heaven, and on earth peace to those on whom His favor rests.” When the angels had left them and retreated into heaven, the shepherds said to one another, “Let’s go to Bethlehem and see this thing that has happened, which the Lord has told us about.”
So they hurried off and found Mary and Joseph, and the baby, who was lying in the feeding trough. When they had observed him, they spread the word concerning what had been explained to them concerning this child, and all who heard it were amazed at what the shepherds said to them. But Mary treasured up all these things and pondered them in her heart. The shepherds returned, glorifying and praising God for all the things they had heard and seen, which were just as they had been told.
On the eighth day, when it was time to circumcise the child, Joseph named him Jesus (the name the angel had given him before he was conceived). When the time came for the purification rites required by the Law of Moses, Joseph and Mary took Jesus to Jerusalem to present him to the Lord(as it is written in the Law of the Lord, “Every firstborn male is to be consecrated to the Lord”), and to offer a sacrifice in keeping with what is stated in the Law of the Lord: “a pair of doves or two young pigeons.”
Now there was a man in Jerusalem called Simeon, who was righteous and devout. He was waiting for the consolation of Israel, and the Holy Spirit was on him. It had been revealed to him by the Holy Spirit that he would not die before he had seen the Lord’s Messiah. Moved by the Spirit, he went into the temple courts. When the parents brought in the child Jesus to do for him what the custom of the Law required, Simeon took him in his arms and praised God, saying: “Sovereign Lord, as You have promised, You may now call me your servant home in peace. For my eyes have seen Your salvation, which you have prepared in the sight of the gentiles: a light for revelation to the them, and the glory of your people Israel.”
The child’s father and mother marveled at what was spoken concerning Jesus. Then Simeon blessed them and said to Mary, his mother: “This child is destined to cause the falling and rising of many in Israel, and to be a sign that will be spoken against, so that the thoughts of many hearts will be revealed. And a sword will pierce your own soul too.”
There was also a prophet, Anna, the daughter of Penuel, of the tribe of Asher. She was very old; she had lived with her husband 7 years after her marriage, and then was a widow until she was 84. She never left the temple but worshiped 24 hours a day, fasting and praying. Coming up to them at that very moment, she gave thanks to God and spoke about the child to all who were looking forward to the redemption of Jerusalem.
Now Joseph and Mary didn't consummate their marriage until she gave birth to Jesus. And Joseph named him Jesus. After Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Judea, during the time of King Herod, Magi from the east came to Jerusalem asking, “Where is the one who has been born king of the Jews? We saw his star when it appeared and have come to worship him.” When King Herod heard this he was disturbed, and all Jerusalem with him. When he had called together all the people’s chief priests and teachers of the law, he asked them where the Messiah was to be born. “In Bethlehem in Judea,” they replied, “for this is what the prophet has written: “‘But you, Bethlehem, in the land of Judah, are by no means least among the rulers of Judah; for out of you will come a ruler who will shepherd my people Israel.’”
Then Herod called the Magi secretly and found out from them the exact time the star had appeared. He sent them to Bethlehem and said, “Go and search carefully for the child. As soon as you find him, report to me, so that I too may go and worship him.” After they had heard the king, they went on their way, and the star they had seen when it appeared went ahead of them until it stopped over the location where the child was. When they observed the star, they were elated. On coming to the house, they saw the child with his mother Mary, and they bowed down and worshiped him. Then they opened their treasures and presented him with gifts of gold, frankincense and myrrh. And having been warned in a dream not to return to Herod, they returned to their country by another route.
When the Magi had left, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream. “Get up,” he said, “take the child and his mother and escape to Egypt. Stay there until I tell you, for Herod is going to search for the child to murder him.” So Joseph arose, took the child and his mother during the night and left for Egypt, where he stayed until the death of Herod. And so was fulfilled what the Lord had said through the prophet: “Out of Egypt I called my son.”
When Herod realized that he had been outwitted by the Magi, he was furious, and he gave orders to kill all the boys in Bethlehem and its vicinity who were 2 years old and under, in accordance with the time he had learned from the Magi. Then what was said through the prophet Jeremiah was fulfilled: “A voice is heard in Ramah, weeping and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children and refusing to be comforted, because they are departed.”
After Herod died, an angel of the Lord appeared in a dream to Joseph in Egypt and said, “Get up, take the child and his mother and go to the land of Israel, for those who were trying to take the child’s life are dead.” So he got up, took the child and his mother and went to the land of Israel. But when he heard that Archelaus was reigning in Judea in place of his father Herod, he was afraid to venture there. Having been warned in a dream, he withdrew to the district of Galilee, and he went and lived in a town called Nazareth. So was fulfilled what was said through the prophets, that he would be labelled a Nazarene.
All those scripture "prophecies" can actually be in favor of a mythical Christ you know. The Epistles and Paul say the only way to know this true heavenly being was through the scripture, not an earthly life (which the Epistles never bring up). Jesus is just a pastiche of scriptures thrown together from the Old Testament. A rewrite job of the earlier mythology updated, not a history remembered.
Dr CamNC4Me
"Dr. Peterson and his Callithumpian cabal of BYU idiots have been marginalized by their own inevitable irrelevancy defending a fraud."
Philo Sofee wrote:All those scripture "prophecies" can actually be in favor of a mythical Christ you know. The Epistles and Paul say the only way to know this true heavenly being was through the scripture, not an earthly life (which the Epistles never bring up). Jesus is just a pastiche of scriptures thrown together from the Old Testament. A rewrite job of the earlier mythology updated, not a history remembered.
So you believe the scriptures were written inside out by a large number of uneducated men who never knew each other over thousands of years... That is not true to the Iliad and the Odyssey nor the Koran nor even the Book of Mormon. The Bible rings true and is coherent, it is written in a way to make one study and think as they read it.
Philo Sofee wrote:All those scripture "prophecies" can actually be in favor of a mythical Christ you know. The Epistles and Paul say the only way to know this true heavenly being was through the scripture, not an earthly life (which the Epistles never bring up). Jesus is just a pastiche of scriptures thrown together from the Old Testament. A rewrite job of the earlier mythology updated, not a history remembered.
So you believe the scriptures were written inside out by a large number of uneducated men who never knew each other over thousands of years... That is not true to the Iliad and the Odyssey nor the Koran nor even the Book of Mormon. The Bible rings true and is coherent, it is written in a way to make one study and think as they read it.
I don't carry the silly assumption that the writers were simpleton dolts.
The Bible coherent? Only after centuries of meddling, fiddling, and changing it. After all it was in the making for millenia dontchta know?
Dr CamNC4Me
"Dr. Peterson and his Callithumpian cabal of BYU idiots have been marginalized by their own inevitable irrelevancy defending a fraud."
That is not true to the Iliad and the Odyssey nor the Koran nor even the Book of Mormon. The Bible rings true and is coherent, it is written in a way to make one study and think as they read it.
After all it was in the making for millenia dontchta know?