cwald wrote:Well as much as I respect cinepro and wish he was right and even argued for years that this concept was the way it was meant to be, I think he is dead wrong. Scott Lloyd is 100% correct on this one, there is only one LDS church and it is defined by 15 old white guys in Salt Lake City and that's a fact. And as much as I wish that was not the case if you try to argue it or teach something different you could be subject to church discipline as an apostate. We have seen it happen hundreds of times.
From the eyes of the Q15 and the average devout member the only person who would argue that there are 15 million individual LDS churches would be an apostate. Yes Scott Lloyd is a douche. But he is merely mirroring what most active Mormons would say.
They probably would agree in theory with an objective black and white paradigm because that is what is preached, but my guess is their subjective interpretation is different from what the Q15 say it is in practice, however so slight that is.
Funny how conditioned LDS are to accept the bogus script that the Church leader is NOT Jesus Christ. Far as my 48 year search has discovered there has only been ONE member of Christ's true church. One prophet, one apostle and one saint, and that one the apostate church has rejected. Only two witnesses will be found on the streets of Jerusalem. You think this preposterous yet it remains the only truth I can discover. Apostate hypocrisy loves itself to death. This is earth ending corruption. Atheist love who they are. Satan loves who he is. God will not cave in as he has the over abundance of all NON HUMAN life and intelligence, worlds and galaxies without number all 100 % with in perfect subjection and felicity. As much as God attempt to sanctify humanity it is grossly ineffective. How upsidedown it appears that the sewage of all intelligence floats on top.
Nightlion wrote:... there has only been ONE member of Christ's true church. One prophet, one apostle and one saint, and that one the apostate church has rejected. Only two witnesses will be found on the streets of Jerusalem. You think this preposterous yet it remains the only truth I can discover. Apostate hypocrisy loves itself to death. This is earth ending corruption. Atheist love who they are. Satan loves who he is. God will not cave in as he has the over abundance of all NON HUMAN life and intelligence, worlds and galaxies without number all 100 % with in perfect subjection and felicity. As much as God attempt to sanctify humanity it is grossly ineffective. How upsidedown it appears that the sewage of all intelligence floats on top.
"Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn’t participate enthusiastically." - Robert Kirby
Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer. -- Henry Lawson
Exiled wrote:They probably would agree in theory with an objective black and white paradigm because that is what is preached, but my guess is their subjective interpretation is different from what the Q15 say it is in practice, however so slight that is.
I was told during my disciplinary court days that I could believe anything I wanted I just wasn't allowed to talk about it at church or in public. I was told I could disagree with the q15 but I was not allowed to openly acknowledge or teach anything contrary to their instructions, and I was not allowed to criticize them openly in public.
I'm going to have to side and give Scott Lloyd the pass on this one... there is one Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and neither Scott Lloyd, myself or none of you have any say on what that believes or entails. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is run like a dictatorship, and you're either in or you are out.
"Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn’t participate enthusiastically." - Robert Kirby
Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer. -- Henry Lawson
Lloyd may sound nice but he is incorrect. How many of The Lord's Servants, the Prophets signed the Essays?
They did not sign them because many of them do not believe what they contain.
Among top leadership there is no one set Doctrine on many issues. They may come out and say there is but we know things come from church HQ while certain leaders are away. Come out that way so the dissenter is out of touch while they know he will not publicly argue against it once he is back.
The only thing they really agree on is that the goal is MORE MONEY.
“Those who never retract their opinions love themselves more than they love truth.” ― Joseph Joubert
cwald wrote:Well as much as I respect cinepro and wish he was right and even argued for years that this concept was the way it was meant to be, I think he is dead wrong. Scott Lloyd is 100% correct on this one, there is only one LDS church and it is defined by 15 old white guys in Salt Lake City and that's a fact. And as much as I wish that was not the case if you try to argue it or teach something different you could be subject to church discipline as an apostate. We have seen it happen hundreds of times.
From the eyes of the Q15 and the average devout member the only person who would argue that there are 15 million individual LDS churches would be an apostate. Yes Scott Lloyd is a douche. But he is merely mirroring what most active Mormons would say.
And you are living proof of those subject to discipline and accused of being an apostate; it is very sad.
So you're chasing around a fly and in your world, I'm the idiot?
"Friends don't let friends be Mormon." Sock Puppet, MDB.
Music is my drug of choice.
"And that is precisely why none of us apologize for holding it to the celestial standard it pretends that it possesses." Kerry, MDB _________________
Exiled wrote:They probably would agree in theory with an objective black and white paradigm because that is what is preached, but my guess is their subjective interpretation is different from what the Q15 say it is in practice, however so slight that is.
I was told during my disciplinary court days that I could believe anything I wanted I just wasn't allowed to talk about it at church or in public. I was told I could disagree with the q15 but I was not allowed to openly acknowledge or teach anything contrary to their instructions, and I was not allowed to criticize them openly in public.
I'm going to have to side and give Scott Lloyd the pass on this one... there is one Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and neither Scott Lloyd, myself or none of you have any say on what that believes or entails. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is run like a dictatorship, and you're either in or you are out.
I guess my problem is thinking that the church wants everyone to think like Scott Lloyd but perhaps that is what they want: a church full of yes-men Q15 worshipers who get nasty when confronted with even the hint of an opposing viewpoint? Even so, when I was still going to church and teaching gospel doctrine, some of the answers to basic questions seemed out in right field, like I was part of a different church.
"Religion is about providing human community in the guise of solving problems that don’t exist or failing to solve problems that do and seeking to reconcile these contradictions and conceal the failures in bogus explanations otherwise known as theology." - Kishkumen
Exile, if the LDS church leaders don't like what Scott Lloyd is saying and doing, and the kind of abuse you are talking about, all they need to do is say so. And mean it.
It really is that simple. They could stop the Scott Lloyds tomorrow but they will not because they actually like and agree with what he is saying.
Scott Lloyd and mental gymnastics and these people who post on the boards with us do represent the church, at least from my experience. They are the LDS true church not the NOMish one we envisioned and fought to protect for so many years.
NOMs lost.
Sad.
"Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn’t participate enthusiastically." - Robert Kirby
Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer. -- Henry Lawson
cwald wrote:Well as much as I respect cinepro and wish he was right and even argued for years that this concept was the way it was meant to be, I think he is dead wrong. Scott Lloyd is 100% correct on this one, there is only one LDS church and it is defined by 15 old white guys in Salt Lake City and that's a fact. And as much as I wish that was not the case if you try to argue it or teach something different you could be subject to church discipline as an apostate. We have seen it happen hundreds of times. .
But that is only for a handful of things. For example you can't preach sex outside marriage is good without getting in a lot of trouble with the church. However, you can say the Book of Mormon is not a literal history. You can believe anything you want on most topics.
cwald wrote:Well as much as I respect cinepro and wish he was right and even argued for years that this concept was the way it was meant to be, I think he is dead wrong. Scott Lloyd is 100% correct on this one, there is only one LDS church and it is defined by 15 old white guys in Salt Lake City and that's a fact. And as much as I wish that was not the case if you try to argue it or teach something different you could be subject to church discipline as an apostate. We have seen it happen hundreds of times. .
But that is only for a handful of things. For example you can't preach sex outside marriage is good without getting in a lot of trouble with the church. However, you can say the Book of Mormon is not a literal history. You can believe anything you want on most topics.
I think that if you were a Gospel Doctrine teacher, and started teaching lessons about the Book of Mormon being inspired fiction, you would find yourself in the Bishop’s office in a New York minute.
So you're chasing around a fly and in your world, I'm the idiot?
"Friends don't let friends be Mormon." Sock Puppet, MDB.
Music is my drug of choice.
"And that is precisely why none of us apologize for holding it to the celestial standard it pretends that it possesses." Kerry, MDB _________________
If the 14 Fs of the Prophet, which was reread into the record during GC oct 2010, and printed in the Ensign is actually church beliefs and teachings, Scott Lloyd is 100% right on this issue.
"Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn’t participate enthusiastically." - Robert Kirby
Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer. -- Henry Lawson
