LDS Teenager Murdered at her High School in Parkland

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Here is the LDS church's stance on firearms:

21.2.4

Firearms

Churches are dedicated for the worship of God and as havens from the cares and concerns of the world. The carrying of lethal weapons, concealed or otherwise, within their walls is inappropriate except as required by officers of the law.

Now that the Church is no longer officially affiliated with the Boy Scouts of America I'm not sure if they still advocate training young men on weapons handling or not.

I can't really see the Mormon church going anti-gun because there are way to many tithe-paying members that have guns. I don't believe they believe it's in their best interest to be political on this issue.

- Doc

[Guest]

40% federal excise tax on guns and ammunition. If we can't do anything about the guns, let's create a fund to pay for the mess our lack of willingness to address this problem creates.

We are the lone country in the developed world with this issue.

Why not reinstate the assault rifle ban and further require that every current assault rifle owner register their firearm and get a special permit. Nobody would get grandfathered in. New assault rifle sales would cease as soon as present inventories were gone.

Every single legacy assault rifle owner gets one year to obtain a license, which would include a background check and fingerprinting. This is not onerous. Such a process is required for a concealed carry permit for a .22 pistol or even obtaining a TSA Known Traveler Number.

The owner then becomes legally responsible and liable for that weapon and its use. If one really wants to be a man and own an AR-15, then he/she can be a man and pay for the privilege. Don't want to lose everything in a lawsuit? There are insurance policies that one can buy to cover potential liabilities.

Want to hunt? Use a bolt or lever action sporting rifle or a shotgun.

Want to own a weapon of mass destruction? No problem. Get a license, an insurance policy, a strong gun safe. Then go on the used market to buy your AR-15 from someone who already owns one and has seen the light.

Used gun prices driven up by excess demand for limited supply? Free market, baby. It's an investment. Think Bitcoin.

[_Stem]

Aren't some of the assaulters military? I don't know that only issuing these assault rifles in the military is a solution. How many of these AR-15 owners at the gun range have killed someone?

I think this major problem doesn't go away if we implement more gun control. The problem is deeper than someone getting a gun and killing people. If someone is intent on killing others, not having a gun won't stop them; and not having the ability to get a gun legally won't stop them. I don't really want to argue this because it's so political. Politically I'm a liberal, in most ways. I think we're better off with bigger govt, near socialism. I support the strictest of gun control laws, even though I don't see gun control as our solution to this problem.

I don't see the point of anyone owning a gun. I don't. I don't see the sport in it. I don't get excited, jazzed or anything but uncomfortable over guns.

People could make their own guns and make their own bullets. Tossing in gun control as the solution seems to me to only push it to the illegal market.

[_Maksutov]

Aren't some of the assaulters military? I don't know that only issuing these assault rifles in the military is a solution. How many of these AR-15 owners at the gun range have killed someone?

I think this major problem doesn't go away if we implement more gun control. The problem is deeper than someone getting a gun and killing people. If someone is intent on killing others, not having a gun won't stop them; and not having the ability to get a gun legally won't stop them. I don't really want to argue this because it's so political. Politically I'm a liberal, in most ways. I think we're better off with bigger govt, near socialism. I support the strictest of gun control laws, even though I don't see gun control as our solution to this problem.

I don't see the point of anyone owning a gun. I don't. I don't see the sport in it. I don't get excited, jazzed or anything but uncomfortable over guns.

People could make their own guns and make their own bullets. Tossing in gun control as the solution seems to me to only push it to the illegal market.

Why make laws if it pushes activity into the "illegal market"? Because we need reasonable structure. Because chaos is even more expensive. How about if it is the "will of the people"?

Either it has to do with the actual guns or Americans are disproportionately homicidal among industrialized peoples, or both. Either way, the conservatives have no answer other than to come to Jesus and donate more to the NRA and the GOP.

The good news is that gun sales are down because a Republican is in the White House. NRA revenues down, ACLU up. Crazy.

[_Markk]

Eighteen school shootings so far in 2018. Republicans fail to extend assault rifle ban. Millions of dollars flow into Republican candidate campaign coffers from the gun lobby.

Mormons are some of the most, if not the most, reliable Republican voters on the planet. And now, for those few of us who live in Florida, the consequences of right wing Republican policies on assault rifles has become all too real. While first responders were handling the mess in Parkland, my wife and I were counting ourselves lucky that our kids live elsewhere.

Then around midnight my wife received a text from one of our granddaughters. One of her close friends, who had recently moved to Parkland, Florida was killed by the 19 year old with a AR-15 in yet another school mass shooting. This beautiful girl was in the ward we used to attend here. No sleep my wife last night and very little for the rest of us.

Don't get me wrong. I'm in favor of responsible firearm ownership. I grew up on a farm with guns and hunted a lot when I was younger. I'm a USMC vet, own several guns, and even have a concealed carry permit. Except for a brief stint as a Boy Scout, I have never belonged to or contributed to the NRA.

I firmly believe that no civilian has any valid use for a assault rifle with a high capacity magazine, especially one with a lightweight little .223 cal slug that can be rendered essentially full automatic with a mail order bump stock.

When I see these guys at the gun range with their AR-15s, I try make it a point to ask them if they served in the military. I have yet to meet an AR-15 owner at the range who did. Let's face it. Owning an AR-15 is nothing more than compensation for perceived inadequacies elsewhere.

The stock response of congressional lawmakers that they are praying for those affected by gun violence is wearing very thin indeed.

Time for Mormons to recognize this aspect of the social damage that arises from their unfounded beliefs. Time for Republican lawmakers to show some courage.

A mini 14, a M1 garrand or carbine, any semi pistol...or even cheap marlin semi auto 22...fire at the same rate of fire as a semi AR.

What ever side of the argument one is on, the "assault rife" argument is really just a a straw man argument. This kid, or anyone, could have had (3) 45 autos and done the same, or more damage, reload faster, and have them concealed much easier.

[Guest]

Aren't some of the assaulters military? I don't know that only issuing these assault rifles in the military is a solution. How many of these AR-15 owners at the gun range have killed someone?

I think this major problem doesn't go away if we implement more gun control. The problem is deeper than someone getting a gun and killing people. If someone is intent on killing others, not having a gun won't stop them; and not having the ability to get a gun legally won't stop them. I don't really want to argue this because it's so political. Politically I'm a liberal, in most ways. I think we're better off with bigger govt, near socialism. I support the strictest of gun control laws, even though I don't see gun control as our solution to this problem.

I don't see the point of anyone owning a gun. I don't. I don't see the sport in it. I don't get excited, jazzed or anything but uncomfortable over guns.

People could make their own guns and make their own bullets. Tossing in gun control as the solution seems to me to only push it to the illegal market.

Stem,

Fully automatic weapons have been recognized as exclusively military weapons and well regulated for close to a century. You can't go out and buy a Browning .50 cal machine gun, or a Thompson machine gun, or even an Uzi, without a special permit. (And these are very difficult to come by.) Such controls should be extended to semiautomatic weapons that have high capacity magazines or can be converted to full automatic with a bump stock. If rate of fire is one of the specs on a weapon, owning it should require a special permit.

There have been no school mass shootings with fully automatic weapons such as uzis, or Mac 10 full autos, etc. Mass shootings have been mainly with lightweight military/tactical style semi automatic rifles with large capacity magazines. In Las Vegas, the shooter also used bump stocks.

Let's severely restrict their use and make those do decide to own them fully responsible for any consequences.

[_Stem]

Stem,

Fully automatic weapons have recognized as exclusively military weapons been well regulated for close to a century. You can't go out and buy a Browning .50 cal machine gun, or a Thompson machine gun, or even an Uzi, without a special permit. (And these are very difficult to come by.) Such controls should be extended to semiautomatic weapons that have high capacity magazines or can be converted to full automatic with a bump stock. If rate of fire, is one of the specs on a weapon, owning it should require a special permit.

There have been no school mass shootings with fully automatic weapons such as uzis, or Mac 10 full autos, etc. Mass shootings have been mainly with lightweight military/tactical style semi automatic rifles with large capacity magazines. In Las Vegas, the shooter also used bump stocks.

Let's severely restrict their use and make those do decide to own them fully responsible for any consequences.

Sounds good to me. I just don't know that it addresses the problems we have with regards to mass killings or school shootings.

[_Stem]

Why make laws if it pushes activity into the "illegal market"? Because we need reasonable structure. Because chaos is even more expensive. How about if it is the "will of the people"?

Agreed. There is reason to make laws. I'm not sure making the laws addresses the problems we have as it pertains to these shootings, though.

Either it has to do with the actual guns or Americans are disproportionately homicidal among industrialized peoples, or both. Either way, the conservatives have no answer other than to come to Jesus and donate more to the NRA and the GOP.

The good news is that gun sales are down because a Republican is in the White House. NRA revenues down, ACLU up. Crazy.

Cool. Thanks for the response. I agree with this for the most part.

[_Kishkumen]

Of course there is no fool proof solution, but that is no excuse not to take action. DrW’s market/regulatory solutions seem reasonable to me. Tax, insurance, licensing, etc. Use the taxes to assist victims and their families.

[_DrW]

Eighteen school shootings so far in 2018. Republicans fail to extend assault rifle ban. Millions of dollars flow into Republican candidate campaign coffers from the gun lobby.

Mormons are some of the most, if not the most, reliable Republican voters on the planet. And now, for those few of us who live in Florida, the consequences of right wing Republican policies on assault rifles has become all too real. While first responders were handling the mess in Parkland, my wife and I were counting ourselves lucky that our kids live elsewhere.

Then around midnight my wife received a text from one of our granddaughters. One of her close friends, who had recently moved to Parkland, Florida was killed by the 19 year old with a AR-15 in yet another school mass shooting. This beautiful girl was in the ward we used to attend here. No sleep my wife last night and very little for the rest of us.

Don't get me wrong. I'm in favor of responsible firearm ownership. I grew up on a farm with guns and hunted a lot when I was younger. I'm a USMC vet, own several guns, and even have a concealed carry permit. Except for a brief stint as a Boy Scout, I have never belonged to or contributed to the NRA.

I firmly believe that no civilian has any valid use for a assault rifle with a high capacity magazine, especially one with a lightweight little .223 cal slug that can be rendered essentially full automatic with a mail order bump stock.

When I see these guys at the gun range with their AR-15s, I try make it a point to ask them if they served in the military. I have yet to meet an AR-15 owner at the range who did. Let's face it. Owning an AR-15 is nothing more than compensation for perceived inadequacies elsewhere.

The stock response of congressional lawmakers that they are praying for those affected by gun violence is wearing very thin indeed.

Time for Mormons to recognize this aspect of the social damage that arises from their unfounded beliefs. Time for Republican lawmakers to show some courage.

A mini 14, a M1 garrand or carbine, any semi pistol...or even cheap marlin semi auto 22...fire at the same rate of fire as a semi AR.

What ever side of the argument one is on, the "assault rife" argument is really just a a straw man argument. This kid, or anyone, could have had (3) 45 autos and done the same, or more damage, reload faster, and have them concealed much easier.

Sure Markk. But they don't, do they?

Give me one example of a mass shooting with an M1 carbine. How many perps do you know of that have armed themselves with three 45 autos and a bunch of magazines and gone on a shooting rampage? I can name none.

How many have done it with AR-15 style weapons? I can name at least half a dozen off the top or my head. If you have been paying attention - you could as well.

When I go down to my local gun store, I don't see M1 carbines or Marlin semi-automatic .22s on prominent display for sale to the public. I see AR-15 style rifles, by any number of manufacturers. Many have Picatinny rails for "tactical" accessories, suppressors, large capacity magazines, etc. The video ads for these weapons show camo-clad men with shooting glasses and ear protection in various tactical poses firing at human shaped targets.

And everyone knows that these weapons can be modified for full-auto by a gunsmith or fitted with a bump stock in one's basement.

Let's start with the AR-15s.