LDS Teenager Murdered at her High School in Parkland

[_Maksutov]

So don't call it an assault rifle. Call it a Poppazork. There, feel better? WTF problem do you think that solved? Any body come back from the dead? Jesus H. Christ. Gun geeks with their geek speak evading the everyday language of the horror they defend. This isn't about your goddamn technology. You don't get to define all of the terms or shut down the dissenting voices...unless you want to use your weapons to go around and start up your final solution of eliminating everyone who disagrees with your gd cultishness. And yeah, I've heard the ominous mutterings of crap like that from the extremists. So go ahead. Threaten me.

Understanding terms is an integral part of coming to an understanding of how the issue needs to be addressed.

How about being scientific? That means conducting experiments. Trying some changes, including restrictions. Science is very important in solving problems. Defining terms is part of framing arguments in situations like this and is not politically neutral. I don't need to digress into postmodernisms to make my point. Some gun owners are willing to accept more restrictions. Others are absolutists. It shows who is serious about solving the problem.

[_Starbuck]

Starbuck all this talk of what constitutes an assault weapon or not, and Second Amendment rights is fine. Please tell me what you see as possible solutions to the mass shootings we're seeing. What needs to be addressed and how.

I wish I had the answer. It's a complex issue involving the hearts and minds of man.

In the short term I think soft targets such as schools need to increase their security. These so called gun free zones are allowing bad guys with guns easy access to easy targets. Secure the buildings and protect the lives. What this would ultimately look like would best be let to those that have the knowledge to implement these security measures.

The ultimate victory would be no need for firearms ever. One day humanity may achieve this, if we don't kill ourselves first.

[_Markk]

"...defend my family..."

I think it would be more accurate to say "collect in my basement". Every gun person I know drops the self-defense justification once in a while, but zero gun people I know would care about their guns for self-defense if the other hobby aspects, beginning with thrill of being a collector, were eliminated. And I haven't seen much to indicate their skills are updated and guns kept in such a way that they'd have an occasion to use their guns for self-defense. The real gun people I know have anywhere between 20 and 400 guns. The statistical chance that any of them will ever find themselves in the perfect scenario to defend themselves with a gun is very low.

Continuing with where I was going earlier, I have this friend who is a vocal right-wing Christian. A good guy and very entertaining for sure. He's right there to defend all the right-wing talking points daily as news comes in, and he made the point to someone the other day "why don't we ban all guns! And how about knives! and ..." and you get the idea. I know he has guns and has carried in the past although other than his party affiliation I don't think he's that into them now. It's interesting, because he's a guy who while very successful, had his rough days that included drinking and other things, and his Christian life has helped him get away from all that. Well, he's very much against substance abuse and drunk driving and the evils of alcohol and has told me straight up that if he were president, he'd re-instate prohibition because the costs are so high that none of the benefits are worth it, and he has no problem taking my occasional beer away.

I haven't asked him yet, but I plan to, how guns are any different. Why not just ban them all like he'd ban alcohol? Well, there's that one thing about guns: self-defense.

But here's where it gets interesting. He used to carry, and when I learned that I'd always ask him if he was packing heat when I saw him and he'd laugh and say no. One time, he explained that he no longer carries. The reason why, was because there were these suspicious guys out where we take our walks who would be at this particular spot all the time who appeared to be up to no good, possibly buying drugs or something and he got the vibe that they were dangerous. He had words with one of them once over something, and he was worried about future conflicts because if he shoots them, then he's worried about the legal consequences to himself. At what point do you really know when your clear to shoot? because he's got a lot of money and family to support and has something to lose in a lawsuit if not jail. That was his reasoning to me for not carrying anymore, and thus reducing the chances his guns would ever be useful in protection scenario to just about zero.

What is your point? I have a friend that has multiple weapons...he is not religious at all, and might be a atheist for all I know, we just never talk about his faith, or lack of. Great guy and good friend. He loves shooting, we go and have a blast target shooting. He is retired and goes all the time, it is his hobbie and passion. What is wrong with that Glad? Why should his rights be taken away becasue criminals abuse our right to keep arms.

What is wrong with having a weapon in a home for self defense?

I think Doctor CamNC4Me sums up what far to many gun control advocates really want....all guns banned. He is honest enough to state that is his desire...what about you?

Let me throw this out also...what creates a school shooter? What plays a larger roll at the root of the problem?

Family values? Does our culture? Does Hollywood by making killers hero's? What about gangsta rap and culture? Drug and alcohol abuse, PC, lack of authority and accountability...all these, and more, lend more to the root of the problem.

Would you be for banning movies that use assault type weapons, and those that make killing justifiable, and killers cool? Would you be for banning types of music that glorify criminal behavior?

[_Starbuck]

Maybe Starbuck can mansplain the situation to these military vets

Iraq Vet: ‘I Know Assault Rifles. They Have No Place On America’s Streets’

I Used an Assault Rifle in the Army. I Don’t Think Civilians Should Own Them

FORMER U.S. SERVICEMAN CALLS FOR BAN ON SEMI-AUTOMATIC WEAPONS

"We are trained in the use of firearms, and many of us have served in combat. And we all think our country must do more to save lives from being cut short by gun violence. As this national crisis continues to rage, I ask my fellow veterans — patriots who have worn the uniform, who took an oath to protect our Constitution and the Second Amendment, who served this great country — to add your voice to this growing call for change. America needs you." -- Retired Army Gen. Stanley McChrystal

So if you are talking assault rifles they are already pretty hard and expensive for a civillian to obtain. If you're talking semi auto rifles I am pretty sure one could find varying opinions of vets on this topic.

Am I suppose to look past the irony of military/exmilitary asking for civilians to give up the right to bear arms?

[_Jersey Girl]

Starbuck all this talk of what constitutes an assault weapon or not, and Second Amendment rights is fine. Please tell me what you see as possible solutions to the mass shootings we're seeing. What needs to be addressed and how.

I wish I had the answer. It's a complex issue involving the hearts and minds of man.

In the short term I think soft targets such as schools need to increase their security. These so called gun free zones are allowing bad guys with guns easy access to easy targets. Secure the buildings and protect the lives. What this would ultimately look like would best be let to those that have the knowledge to implement these security measures.

The ultimate victory would be no need for firearms ever. One day humanity may achieve this, if we don't kill ourselves first.

That's it? I could have quoted weeping politicians with NRA dollars in their accounts to get that.

Are you at all familiar with the Florida shooter? Last time I checked (and I haven't checked the past few days, I'm taking a break here from a project) both the FBI and local authorities dropped the ball on this kid.

You don't see any room for improvement on the part of those two authorities?

[_Jersey Girl]

Maybe Starbuck can mansplain the situation to these military vets

Iraq Vet: ‘I Know Assault Rifles. They Have No Place On America’s Streets’

I Used an Assault Rifle in the Army. I Don’t Think Civilians Should Own Them

FORMER U.S. SERVICEMAN CALLS FOR BAN ON SEMI-AUTOMATIC WEAPONS

"We are trained in the use of firearms, and many of us have served in combat. And we all think our country must do more to save lives from being cut short by gun violence. As this national crisis continues to rage, I ask my fellow veterans — patriots who have worn the uniform, who took an oath to protect our Constitution and the Second Amendment, who served this great country — to add your voice to this growing call for change. America needs you." -- Retired Army Gen. Stanley McChrystal

So if you are talking assault rifles they are already pretty hard and expensive for a civillian to obtain. If you're talking semi auto rifles I am pretty sure one could find varying opinions of vets on this topic.

Am I suppose to look past the irony of military/exmilitary asking for civilians to give up the right to bear arms?

Yes.

[_Maksutov]

Maybe Starbuck can mansplain the situation to these military vets

Iraq Vet: ‘I Know Assault Rifles. They Have No Place On America’s Streets’

I Used an Assault Rifle in the Army. I Don’t Think Civilians Should Own Them

FORMER U.S. SERVICEMAN CALLS FOR BAN ON SEMI-AUTOMATIC WEAPONS

"We are trained in the use of firearms, and many of us have served in combat. And we all think our country must do more to save lives from being cut short by gun violence. As this national crisis continues to rage, I ask my fellow veterans — patriots who have worn the uniform, who took an oath to protect our Constitution and the Second Amendment, who served this great country — to add your voice to this growing call for change. America needs you." -- Retired Army Gen. Stanley McChrystal

So if you are talking assault rifles they are already pretty hard and expensive for a civillian to obtain. If you're talking semi auto rifles I am pretty sure one could find varying opinions of vets on this topic.

Am I suppose to look past the irony of military/exmilitary asking for civilians to give up the right to bear arms?

Irony is in the eye of the beholder. We're talking about dead kids.

[_Jersey Girl]

Irony is in the eye of the beholder. We're talking about dead kids.

We're not only talking about dead kids, Mak.

We're also talking about every other student and teacher/adult who was exposed to the shooting who experienced trauma. Trauma that has likely (to date) gone untreated. Trauma resulting in PTSD (that needs to be treated immediately), anxiety/depression and ultimately ideation of suicide.

We're also talking about every parent and sibling who was subject to trauma that day.

This isn't just about 17 dead kids and the physically injured.

[_Jersey Girl]

In terms of mental illness, the shooter replicated himself by the hundreds.

[_Maksutov]

Irony is in the eye of the beholder. We're talking about dead kids.

We're not only talking about dead kids, Mak.

We're also talking about every other student and teacher/adult who was exposed to the shooting who experienced trauma. Trauma that has likely (to date) gone untreated. Trauma resulting in PTSD (that needs to be treated immediately), anxiety/depression and ultimately ideation of suicide.

We're also talking about every parent and sibling who was subject to trauma that day.

This isn't just about 17 dead kids and the physically injured.

Thanks, Jersey. It throws a long shadow. And how many millions of little American kids are listening to their TVs about this horror, wondering why anyone would want to kill them and why the grownups don't seem to care.