Is the Bible Inerrant?

[_Fence Sitter]

Claims to know what is and is not inerrant or what God says or does not say by imperfect and limited people are only are accurate as the claimant.

[_Amore]

Claims to know what is and is not inerrant or what God says or does not say by imperfect and limited people are only are accurate as the claimant.

Says who?

[_Amore]

You are putting fallible human beings writings up on pedestals as if they were infallible gods.

“Thou shalt have no other gods” - 1st of the basics. Why? Because no matter how ancient, revered, popular or canonized, all human beings are fallible. And really, scriptures or any other idol is not God him/her self, but often symbolize God so so much that they forget God & focus on that which was only meant as a fallible sign to POINT to God.

The Bible says "Thou shalt have no other gods." However, according to you the Bible was written by man and so is fallible ----- therefore according to you since the Bible is nothing but errors, the verse you quoted is worthless because it was written by man and man makes mistakes and so doesn't have a clue what God has to say regarding other gods...

Now, since I believe the Bible is GOD's words written down by man, I can accept that by other gods, the one true GOD of the Bible is referring to other gods and not what HE himself dictated for our benefit!

Nice try, but if you take the Bible to be of God, then you accept that 1st basic, lower commandment to not have other gods before God, which includes the Bible as an idol/god.

Personally, I believe there are truths and lies in the Bible, goodness and evil, so as with anything, I sort through it to “find the pearl in the dumpster.”

I don’t mean to be rude - just speaking from my mind and heart. Life is too short to contaminate it with false gods. The Bible is huge! I try to focus on just those scriptures that help me live better. Reading biblical stories of war and incest are like watching the 5:00 bad news - not really helpful... and focusing on negative is not of God, in my opinion.

[_Doctor Steuss]

This ultimately just makes up numbers to reach the assumed conclusion (i.e. the Bible can't be wrong).

I reckon a bit of begging the claim dressing helps make a circular reasoning salad more palatable.

You make up excuses to not believe the Bible. So be it.

An honest witness does not deceive...

[_huckelberry]

I believe the Bible is what God wants it to be. It is fulfilling the mission God has given it.

About a year ago my brain became dislodged from the mindset that my traditional beliefs were inevitably true and axiomatic. It has been a jarring yet rewarding transition. With that as context, now I just can't seem to find a reason to weight the Bible with cosmological importance. Clearly human beings yield high social benefit through systems of belief, thus holy books can be completely explained as evolutionary advantageous to peoples, nothing more than that.

meadowchik, It would seem reasonable I think that if something is of evolutionary advantage it would also be of individual personal advantage. I wonder if there is any possible cosmological meaning something could have that would be larger than the observation that it has this sort of life and death evolutionary advantage?

Perhaps you mean does it prove there is life after death? I do not see any proof of that possible untill our life ends. The only thing we can really deal with is whether the Bible is advantageous to our actual living.

It does serve as reminder of the bad news about our existence which we may wish to hide from. (war ,evil , disaster struggle,the difficulty of maintaining good relationships with people we need to love etc)

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If evolution is how humans have come into existence then it reflects the most basic order of reality. It seems wise to pay it close attention.

[_LittleNipper]

You make up excuses to not believe the Bible. So be it.

An honest witness does not deceive...

I believe your self deception is causing you to reject the facts that the Bible presents. An honest witness doesn't always tell you everything you wish to know on your terms.

[_Meadowchik]

meadowchik, It would seem reasonable I think that if something is of evolutionary advantage it would also be of individual personal advantage. I wonder if there is any possible cosmological meaning something could have that would be larger than the observation that it has this sort of life and death evolutionary advantage?

Perhaps you mean does it prove there is life after death? I do not see any proof of that possible untill our life ends. The only thing we can really deal with is whether the Bible is advantageous to our actual living.

It does serve as reminder of the bad news about our existence which we may wish to hide from. (war ,evil , disaster struggle,the difficulty of maintaining good relationships with people we need to love etc)

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If evolution is how humans have come into existence then it reflects the most basic order of reality. It seems wise to pay it close attention.

Recognizing the power of belief itself, regardless of what it actually is, is indeed paying close attention. That in my opinion is what reflects basic reality: humans are conscious and social and tend to want to believe something together and tend to be more productive as a group when they do believe something together.

So, one can appreciate the value of Holy Books without holding any of them up as inerrant or divine. That's a fundamental and unjustified jump.

And they wouldn't be the only thing that at one time or circumstances was/is advantageous for the group. At different times and circumstances, slavery, incest, cannibalism and any number of other harmful things proved to be advantageous to some groups.

I tend to seek out beliefs or structures with integrity, which rely on more than loyalty for loyalty's sake. Groups that share common values where every person is accountable, and groups where people can leave with their dignity intact are in my opinion more worthy of regard.

I am wary of relying on group membership at all, but ultimately some level of interdependence is unavoidable in human life and in many ways can make life more fulfilling. So, to get even more local and individual than group structure, I regard any belief based on its results if universally applied. The Golden Rule, for example, is simple but vastly applicable.

[_Doctor Steuss]

An honest witness does not deceive...

I believe your self deception is causing you to reject the facts that the Bible presents. An honest witness doesn't always tell you everything you wish to know on your terms.

Would an honest witness make up numbers to fit a preformed conclusion?

Asking for a friend.

[_huckelberry]

meadowchik, It would seem reasonable I think that if something is of evolutionary advantage it would also be of individual personal advantage. I wonder if there is any possible cosmological meaning something could have that would be larger than the observation that it has this sort of life and death evolutionary advantage?

Recognizing the power of belief itself, regardless of what it actually is, is indeed paying close attention. That in my opinion is what reflects basic reality: humans are conscious and social and tend to want to believe something together and tend to be more productive as a group when they do believe something together.

So, one can appreciate the value of Holy Books without holding any of them up as inerrant or divine. That's a fundamental and unjustified jump.

And they wouldn't be the only thing that at one time or circumstances was/is advantageous for the group. At different times and circumstances, slavery, incest, cannibalism and any number of other harmful things proved to be advantageous to some groups.

I tend to seek out beliefs or structures with integrity, which rely on more than loyalty for loyalty's sake. Groups that share common values where every person is accountable, and groups where people can leave with their dignity intact are in my opinion more worthy of regard.

I am wary of relying on group membership at all, but ultimately some level of interdependence is unavoidable in human life and in many ways can make life more fulfilling. So, to get even more local and individual than group structure, I regard any belief based on its results if universally applied. The Golden Rule, for example, is simple but vastly applicable.

Meadowchik,
I suppose in general belief and group loyalty have some evolutionary advantage. I see those as limited values however. I am against all unthinking belief and loyalty. They carry destructive baggage. They are a bit like those more extreme examples of ills that have temporary value which you mention. All over the world the past has people using cannibalism for social power and useful protein source. However across the world people have learned that the disadvantage incurred of neighbors who hate you and will not trade with you because the don't want to be dinner are a serious burden to learning wealth and cultural expansion. Those area that had difficulty leaving cannibalism remained poor and isolated while the rest of the world learned trade and exchange of ideas and technology to their great benefit.

I think it is a serious evolutionary advantage for groups to leave beliefs and loyalties that share characteristics with those short term destructive advantageous strategies you mention.

[_Meadowchik]

Meadowchik,
I suppose in general belief and group loyalty have some evolutionary advantage. I see those as limited values however. I am against all unthinking belief and loyalty. They carry destructive baggage. They are a bit like those more extreme examples of ills that have temporary value which you mention. All over the world the past has people using cannibalism for social power and useful protein source. However across the world people have learned that the disadvantage incurred of neighbors who hate you and will not trade with you because the don't want to be dinner are a serious burden to learning wealth and cultural expansion. Those area that had difficulty leaving cannibalism remained poor and isolated while the rest of the world learned trade and exchange of ideas and technology to their great benefit.

I think it is a serious evolutionary advantage for groups to leave beliefs and loyalties that share characteristics with those short term destructive advantageous strategies you mention.

I agree. I think that the very tightly cohesive nature of Mormonism was a strength but is becoming more of a weakness. The same social controls which may have helped accumulate and target influence is now wrecking families and healthier alternatives.

in my opinion one of the gauges these days for a healthy group is one which allows members to leave with dignity intact.