Mormons seem confused who to WORSHIP

[_pogi]

It's the feeling that Joseph Smith expressed towards himself:

"I have more to boast of than any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such work as I."

I've observed the reverence, deference and fawning of members toward GAs for 63 years. In person and by video. At BYU, General Conference and on the streets of Provo. I know what I'm looking at.

Joseph may have boasted once, therefore Mormons worship their leaders?

https://www.fairmormon.org/answers/Jose ... m/Boasting


Maksutov, have you ever had reverence or deference for another human? Would you say that you worship those people? Do you accuse all humans who fawn over other humans, guilty of worshiping those they behave favorably and affectionately towards?

[_pogi]

Follow the Prophet, he knows the way.
You can always trust the living Prophets.
Do you sustain the General Authroities of the Church?

Do you have an example where you’ve gone against the counsel of a General Authority because you’ve considered they were wrong?

Trusting and sustaining leaders is equivalent to "worship"?

I have plenty of examples of prophets being wrong. Adam-God, blood atonement, blacks and the priesthood, etc. etc. etc.

[_Maksutov]

It's the feeling that Joseph Smith expressed towards himself:

"I have more to boast of than any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such work as I."

I've observed the reverence, deference and fawning of members toward GAs for 63 years. In person and by video. At BYU, General Conference and on the streets of Provo. I know what I'm looking at.

Joseph may have boasted once, therefore Mormons worship their leaders?

https://www.fairmormon.org/answers/Jose ... m/Boasting


Maksutov, have you ever had reverence or deference for another human? Would you say that you worship those people? Do you accuse all humans who fawn over other humans, guilty of worshiping those they behave favorably and affectionately towards?

I didn't say that.

No, I don't worship people. I have love, respect, affection. That isn't the same thing. I keep it straight. I don't have faith in any man and I don't believe in events and alleged facts based upon subjective feelings like burning bosoms and the recommendations of fictitious texts. I have no confidence in magic rocks and their promoters. Call me cynical.

[_I have a question]

Follow the Prophet, he knows the way.
You can always trust the living Prophets.
Do you sustain the General Authroities of the Church?

Do you have an example where you’ve gone against the counsel of a General Authority because you’ve considered they were wrong?

Trusting and sustaining leaders is equivalent to "worship"?

I have plenty of examples of prophets being wrong. Adam-God, blood atonement, blacks and the priesthood, etc. etc. etc.

Got any examples of the current Prophets being wrong right now?
And got any examples of you acting against their counsel/voting to not sustain because you believe them to be wrong?

[_pogi]

I didn't say that.

No, I don't worship people. I have love, respect, affection. That isn't the same thing. I keep it straight. I don't have faith in any man and I don't believe in events and alleged facts based upon subjective feelings like burning bosoms and the recommendations of fictitious texts. I have no confidence in magic rocks and their promoters. Call me cynical.

I am happy to hear you don't worship people. Neither do I. Neither does any Mormon I have ever met. We are JUST like you in that respect. We have love, respect, affection, and place a great amount of trust in our prophets, but I see no evidence of worship.

No, we do not have faith in man in any sense other than trust. We have faith in God and trust that he reveals his truths through prophets. No worship. Let it go...

[_pogi]

Got any examples of the current Prophets being wrong right now?
And got any examples of you acting against their counsel/voting to not sustain because you believe them to be wrong?

Sorry, I am not going to play this game when I don't see any point to it. Why would that make a difference? Believing a person to be wrong or right is not equivalent to worship. What if I NEVER questioned a single prophet because I fully believe that EVERY word they speak is inspired by God? Would that equate to people worship? No, it wouldn't. It might equate to blind trust, but not worship.

[_Maksutov]

I didn't say that.

No, I don't worship people. I have love, respect, affection. That isn't the same thing. I keep it straight. I don't have faith in any man and I don't believe in events and alleged facts based upon subjective feelings like burning bosoms and the recommendations of fictitious texts. I have no confidence in magic rocks and their promoters. Call me cynical.

I am happy to hear you don't worship people. Neither do I. Neither does any Mormon I have ever met. We are JUST like you in that respect. We have love, respect, affection, and place a great amount of trust in our prophets, but I see no evidence of worship.

No, we do not have faith in man in any sense other than trust. We have faith in God and trust that he reveals his truths through prophets. No worship. Let it go...

Of course I let it go. I resigned. You don't see me going door to door pushing nonsense on strangers or claiming divine knowledge that I obviously don't have. I have too much integrity, honesty and self respect. For instance, I think that translating hidden books using magic rocks is clearly the act of a charlatan. It's fascinating that people have been trained to think about and mention said charlatan in tones of deep respect and reverence, but my study of fanatical religious movements and cults has demonstrated that it's actually pretty common throughout the world, especially among the less educated and those without internet.

Please don't pretend that you haven't heard people bear their testimonies of prophets and churches being "true". That isn't about "trusting" them, it's about believing in them. You can come up with your own private Mormonism, of course, like so many people do, but convince me that it's the same as the institutions, the Corporation? Nope.

Doctrines and programs come and go but the WORSHIP of the leaders continues. They are farther along on the road to Godhood, so giving them a little of what God gets is no biggie.

.................
Merriam-Webster

Definition of worship
worshipped also worshiped; worshipping also worshiping
transitive verb
1 : to honor or reverence as a divine being or supernatural power
2 : to regard with great or extravagant respect, honor, or devotion a celebrity worshipped by her fans

[_pogi]

Of course I let it go. I resigned.

No, I mean let go of the idea that Mormon's worship their leaders. We don't.

That isn't about "trusting" them, it's about believing in them.

So, if you believe in someone, you are worshiping them?

Definition of worship
worshipped also worshiped; worshipping also worshiping
transitive verb
1 : to honor or reverence as a divine being or supernatural power
2 : to regard with great or extravagant respect, honor, or devotion a celebrity worshipped by her fans

If you are defining "worship" as great respect, honor, and devotion for another person...well, then I guess we worship our prophets. But if THAT is the definition you are using, I don't see it as very weird that we worship another person. I hope it could be said (by using that definition) that all married people "worship" their spouses in the same way, with great respect, honor, love, and devotion.

[_Maksutov]

Of course I let it go. I resigned.

No, I mean let go of the idea that Mormon's worship their leaders. We don't.

That isn't about "trusting" them, it's about believing in them.

So, if you believe in someone, you are worshiping them?

Definition of worship
worshipped also worshiped; worshipping also worshiping
transitive verb
1 : to honor or reverence as a divine being or supernatural power
2 : to regard with great or extravagant respect, honor, or devotion a celebrity worshipped by her fans

If you are defining "worship" as great respect, honor, and devotion for another person...well, then I guess we worship our prophets. But if THAT is the definition you are using, I don't see it as very weird that we worship another person. I hope it could be said (by using that definition) that all married people "worship" their spouses in the same way, with great respect, honor, love, and devotion.

Call it whatever you want, it's your religion. You have to live with it. We get to comment on it. You may experience some discomfort.

[_pogi]

Call it whatever you want, it's your religion. You have to live with it. We get to comment on it. You may experience some discomfort.

Correction, I get to live with it

Comment away! I enjoy the dialogue, but it would just be nice if critics stopped making false accusations. If you are going to let us define our own religion, at least respect that right and accept it when we tell you that we don't worship our leaders (at least in the way that some imply). Thanks!