THREE TESTS THE Book of Mormon CANNOT PASS

[_spotlight]

The problem with "Nuclear" dating is the simple realization that there is no expert who knows the intensity at which GOD created the elements originally.

What in your opinion would that have to do with nuclear dating??

At what age did GOD create trees and plant life and animals?

Sometime over the last half billion years although he didn't leave any tells if he was involved in the process.

When GOD created Adam was he a baby or a healthy robust 28 looking year old man?

A baby, otherwise he had to create neural connections that provided a memory that was false so that he'd know how to have motor functions sufficient to walk and talk etc. False memories would require a deceptive god.

The very same holds true for the ENTIRE universe.

Omphalos "theory" then is it? Yeah, not very convincing to very many buy have at it. I'd prefer last Thursdayism, less complex. If you are going for simplicity may as well go all the way I say.

GOD the ARTIST created a perfect environment to house perfect beings.

Oh so now he's an artist? Can't be satisfied with STEAM instead of STEM? We have to eliminate STEM altogether now?
Yes, he created the sun to give light on the earth per the biblical mythology. But that light created by the sun takes from 10,000 years on the fast tail of the curve to over 100,000 years on the longer end of the curve to get to us. So he had to create all the photons that we see as if they originated from the sun but really they were created in transit. Yawn. Why bother with creating the sun at all? It really hasn't served the purpose for which it was supposedly created in the first place.

The moon is presently moving away from the earth at about 1 inch a year ----so how close was it 600,000,000 years ago if everything is occurring as it always has..?

Who said everything is occurring as fast as it always has? False equivalence there I'm afraid. If you are going to argue that the laws of physics are changing to that degree necessary for a young earth with nuclear decay rates changing then you must abandon the idea that the universe is fine tuned for life. Are you at least going to be that consistent in your thinking?

[_LittleNipper]

The problem with "Nuclear" dating is the simple realization that there is no expert who knows the intensity at which GOD created the elements originally.

What in your opinion would that have to do with nuclear dating??

At what age did GOD create trees and plant life and animals?

Sometime over the last half billion years although he didn't leave any tells if he was involved in the process.

When GOD created Adam was he a baby or a healthy robust 28 looking year old man?

A baby, otherwise he had to create neural connections that provided a memory that was false so that he'd know how to have motor functions sufficient to walk and talk etc. False memories would require a deceptive god.

The very same holds true for the ENTIRE universe.

Omphalos "theory" then is it? Yeah, not very convincing to very many buy have at it. I'd prefer last Thursdayism, less complex. If you are going for simplicity may as well go all the way I say.

GOD the ARTIST created a perfect environment to house perfect beings.

Oh so now he's an artist? Can't be satisfied with STEAM instead of STEM? We have to eliminate STEM altogether now?
Yes, he created the sun to give light on the earth per the biblical mythology. But that light created by the sun takes from 10,000 years on the fast tail of the curve to over 100,000 years on the longer end of the curve to get to us. So he had to create all the photons that we see as if they originated from the sun but really they were created in transit. Yawn. Why bother with creating the sun at all? It really hasn't served the purpose for which it was supposedly created in the first place.

The moon is presently moving away from the earth at about 1 inch a year ----so how close was it 600,000,000 years ago if everything is occurring as it always has..?

Who said everything is occurring as fast as it always has? False equivalence there I'm afraid. If you are going to argue that the laws of physics are changing to that degree necessary for a young earth with nuclear decay rates changing then you must abandon the idea that the universe is fine tuned for life. Are you at least going to be that consistent in your thinking?

Simply put: There is no proof that God didn't create lead as lead and it may not actually be the half-life of anything. The very same goes for all other elements. Yes, GOD is creative and that makes Him artistic. The Bible clearly states that GOD created LIGHT 1st and then GOD created the sources of natural light. It would seem that either some backward sheepherders seconded guessed your insinuation thousands of years ago, or GOD is not to be outdone by accomplishing exactly what HE wishes when HE wishes --- the way HE desires. And I find it funny that you see no reason that things you selectively choose may change their rate but this cannot be applied to anything or everything --- oh yes, that would undermined present evolutionary thought by removing 100's of millions of years of quackery...

[_spotlight]

Simply put: There is no proof that God didn't create lead as lead and it may not actually be the half-life of anything. The very same goes for all other elements.

There are ways to tell original lead from lead that results from nuclear decay. One way is the isochron dating method. Then there are other non-nuclear methods of dating. What you cannot explain is why these various methods agree with one another. Why should that be the case Nipper? Is your god deceptive?

Yes, GOD is creative and that makes Him artistic. The Bible clearly states that GOD created LIGHT 1st and then GOD created the sources of natural light. It would seem that either some backward sheepherders seconded guessed your insinuation thousands of years ago, or GOD is not to be outdone by accomplishing exactly what HE wishes when HE wishes --- the way HE desires. And I find it funny that you see no reason that things you selectively choose may change their rate but this cannot be applied to anything or everything --- oh yes, that would undermined present evolutionary thought by removing 100's of millions of years of quackery...

I never contested the artist depiction of your magic man. Re-read my post.
The way matter behaves has been worked out to the point that we can now understand things like nuclear decay rates as the result of the operation of natural laws. The behavior can be derived. The behavior is not arbitrary. Decay rates cannot simply be varied by turning a dial. There are interconnected implications that must attend to such a variation in law if it were to exist. Those implications spell doom to life if the decay rates are sped up by the amount young earth creationist need.

Fission tracks are recorded in rock. The amount of radiation spread over eons fits with the reality of a planet with a molten interior and a resulting magnetosphere. Those fission tracks can't be passed off to Omphalos ad hockery. Sorry, they had to occur after creation. The RATE project by your pet creationist site acknowledges this. So you'll have to educate yourself up to even their standards I guess. The energy involved in those recorded tracks would be enough to melt the planet if released in the time frame young earth creation requires.

[_LittleNipper]

Simply put: There is no proof that God didn't create lead as lead and it may not actually be the half-life of anything. The very same goes for all other elements.

There are ways to tell original lead from lead that results from nuclear decay. One way is the isochron dating method. Then there are other non-nuclear methods of dating. What you cannot explain is why these various methods agree with one another. Why should that be the case Nipper? Is your god deceptive?

Yes, GOD is creative and that makes Him artistic. The Bible clearly states that GOD created LIGHT 1st and then GOD created the sources of natural light. It would seem that either some backward sheepherders seconded guessed your insinuation thousands of years ago, or GOD is not to be outdone by accomplishing exactly what HE wishes when HE wishes --- the way HE desires. And I find it funny that you see no reason that things you selectively choose may change their rate but this cannot be applied to anything or everything --- oh yes, that would undermined present evolutionary thought by removing 100's of millions of years of quackery...

I never contested the artist depiction of your magic man. Re-read my post.
The way matter behaves has been worked out to the point that we can now understand things like nuclear decay rates as the result of the operation of natural laws. The behavior can be derived. The behavior is not arbitrary. Decay rates cannot simply be varied by turning a dial. There are interconnected implications that must attend to such a variation in law if it were to exist. Those implications spell doom to life if the decay rates are sped up by the amount young earth creationist need.

Fission tracks are recorded in rock. The amount of radiation spread over eons fits with the reality of a planet with a molten interior and a resulting magnetosphere. Those fission tracks can't be passed off to Omphalos ad hockery. Sorry, they had to occur after creation. The RATE project by your pet creationist site acknowledges this. So you'll have to educate yourself up to even their standards I guess. The energy involved in those recorded tracks would be enough to melt the planet if released in the time frame young earth creation requires.

GOD never deceives. Man deceives himself. What I do know is that rocks around various volcanoes where they know are from recent eruptions and yet they register as hundreds of thousands of years old... https://www.techexplorist.com/prehistor ... age/17538/

[_spotlight]

GOD never deceives. Man deceives himself. What I do know is that rocks around various volcanoes where they know are from recent eruptions and yet they register as hundreds of thousands of years old... https://www.techexplorist.com/prehistor ... age/17538/

No, god deceives if he fabricates false data to point to an old universe and earth when it is in fact young. This article does not invalidate C14 dating anymore than a child swimming with a cheap wrist watch invalidates watches keeping time when he discovers it is no longer functioning properly.

ETA
So a tree ring subjected to old carbon from a volcano eruption is off as much as 200 years. So what? It doesn't affect the 15,000 year ball park date which invalidates young earth creationism. That's like saying when you run a lap and the stopwatch is off by as much as half a second that your overall time of a minute plus is entirely wrong. And this is only within 60 kilometers of the volcano per the article. In other words look at tree rings far enough from the vent and you'll find tree rings that are not affected in this manner. So the error can be detected and corrected for. And it only affects the time associated with the activity of the volcano. Times calculated immediately before and after an eruption are still correct and still invalidate YEC.

Where do you think C14 comes from? Did god make it like he did photons in transit? Then he is deceptive. Why? Because he only put it where we would expect it to exist from natural processes. Why didn't he put any in the CO2 escaping from the ground? If I wanted to influence others to become atheists I would not post as I presently do here. I would pretend to believe as you do and post like you do. It'd be far more lethal to religious faith. You are like the newb football player running the wrong direction and scoring points for the wrong team.

[_LittleNipper]

GOD never deceives. Man deceives himself. What I do know is that rocks around various volcanoes where they know are from recent eruptions and yet they register as hundreds of thousands of years old... https://www.techexplorist.com/prehistor ... age/17538/

No, god deceives if he fabricates false data to point to an old universe and earth when it is in fact young. This article does not invalidate C14 dating anymore than a child swimming with a cheap wrist watch invalidates watches keeping time when he discovers it is no longer functioning properly.

ETA
So a tree ring subjected to old carbon from a volcano eruption is off as much as 200 years. So what? It doesn't affect the 15,000 year ball park date which invalidates young earth creationism. That's like saying when you run a lap and the stopwatch is off by as much as half a second that your overall time of a minute plus is entirely wrong. And this is only within 60 kilometers of the volcano per the article. In other words look at tree rings far enough from the vent and you'll find tree rings that are not affected in this manner. So the error can be detected and corrected for. And it only affects the time associated with the activity of the volcano. Times calculated immediately before and after an eruption are still correct and still invalidate young earth creationism.

Where do you think C14 comes from? Did god make it like he did photons in transit? Then he is deceptive. Why? Because he only put it where we would expect it to exist from natural processes. Why didn't he put any in the CO2 escaping from the ground? If I wanted to influence others to become atheists I would not post as I presently do here. I would pretend to believe as you do and post like you do. It'd be far more lethal to religious faith. You are like the newb football player running the wrong direction and scoring points for the wrong team.

The fool deceives himself when he presumes that he knows it all and tries to eliminate GOD for the equation. GOD didn't establish your values and opinions regarding creation. GOD is certainly not trying to fit your expectations --- the ones you designed and are now trying to hold GOD accountable to abide by. It has been shown that tree rings were affected by the year without a summer, which was caused by volcanic action 100's of 1000's of miles away. Think how hundreds of volcanoes all spewing at once could affect this entire planet. You take far too much credit for the evolutionary scientific community. They overlook so much when they ignore GOD.

[Guest]

The fool deceives himself when he presumes that he knows it all and tries to eliminate GOD for the equation. GOD didn't establish your values and opinions regarding creation. GOD is certainly not trying to fit your expectations --- the ones you designed and are now trying to hold GOD accountable to abide by. It has been shown that tree rings were affected by the year without a summer, which was caused by volcanic action 100's of 1000's of miles away. Think how hundreds of volcanoes all spewing at once could affect this entire planet. You take far too much credit for the evolutionary scientific community. They overlook so much when they ignore GOD.

Your model is eviscerated by close examination of the data. Had there been this volcanic eruption planet wide there would be massive consilience of the evidence to vindicate that. There isn't any. Read some actual science and understand it before wandering off onto fringe tangents. But that is not going to happen with you because you began on this tangent and can't get off of it.

Was it with you I went down the path of the permafrost evidence of an old earth?
[quote]The formation of permafrost (frozen ground) is a slow process. Because earth is a good insulator and permafrost forms downward from the surface, it would have taken much more than the few thousand years allotted by creation theory to produce some of the deepest permafrost. In the Prudhoe Bay oil fields of Alaska, the permafrost which extends over 600 meters into the ground is believed to have taken over 225,000 years to reach present depth.
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Evidence_ ... t_creation

There are fossil remains below and throughout. Your god is either a deceiver or does not exist as you imagine him to be. Take your pick.

[_LittleNipper]

The fool deceives himself when he presumes that he knows it all and tries to eliminate GOD for the equation. GOD didn't establish your values and opinions regarding creation. GOD is certainly not trying to fit your expectations --- the ones you designed and are now trying to hold GOD accountable to abide by. It has been shown that tree rings were affected by the year without a summer, which was caused by volcanic action 100's of 1000's of miles away. Think how hundreds of volcanoes all spewing at once could affect this entire planet. You take far too much credit for the evolutionary scientific community. They overlook so much when they ignore GOD.

Your model is eviscerated by close examination of the data. Had there been this volcanic eruption planet wide there would be massive consilience of the evidence to vindicate that. There isn't any. Read some actual science and understand it before wandering off onto fringe tangents. But that is not going to happen with you because you began on this tangent and can't get off of it.

Was it with you I went down the path of the permafrost evidence of an old earth?

The formation of permafrost (frozen ground) is a slow process. Because earth is a good insulator and permafrost forms downward from the surface, it would have taken much more than the few thousand years allotted by creation theory to produce some of the deepest permafrost. In the Prudhoe Bay oil fields of Alaska, the permafrost which extends over 600 meters into the ground is believed to have taken over 225,000 years to reach present depth.
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Evidence_ ... t_creation

There are fossil remains below and throughout. You god is either a deceiver or does not exist as you imagine him to be. Take your pick.

The evidence is likely the fact that you perceive the planet to be billions of years old when it is only say 6-10 thousand years old. Believed is not an absolute --- remember that.

[_spotlight]

The evidence is likely the fact that you perceive the planet to be billions of years old when it is only say 6-10 thousand years old. Believed is not an absolute --- remember that.

No Nipper you are forgetting or were never aware that I believed in a young earth as a child and after consuming enough information was forced to abandon that belief because it was contradicted by the facts.
If I am operating upon belief then that belief is that a world view that is in self-contradiction is an incorrect world view by necessity.

[_LittleNipper]

The evidence is likely the fact that you perceive the planet to be billions of years old when it is only say 6-10 thousand years old. Believed is not an absolute --- remember that.

No Nipper you are forgetting or were never aware that I believed in a young earth as a child and after consuming enough information was forced to abandon that belief because it was contradicted by the facts.
If I am operating upon belief then that belief is that a world view that is in self-contradiction is an incorrect world view by necessity.

Either one believes in GOD or one doesn't. If one believes in GOD then GOD created. Creation involves the supernatural to one degree or another. If your aim is to find a natural explanation for everything then the god of such a mindset is TIME. Time becomes the excuse that evolutionists toss at Creationists. I well remember that long dead TV orator Carl Sagan line, "Billions and billions of years ago..." Sounds educated but in fact it is a waste of time...