Trump as the new King Cyrus

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_Maksutov
_Emeritus
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Trump as the new King Cyrus

Post by _Maksutov »

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/31/opin ... e=Homepage

As the Trump presidency falls under siege on multiple fronts, it has become increasingly clear that the so-called values voters will be among the last to leave the citadel. A lot of attention has been paid to the supposed paradox of evangelicals backing such an imperfect man, but the real problem is that our idea of Christian nationalism hasn’t caught up with the reality. We still buy the line that the hard core of the Christian right is just an interest group working to protect its values. But what we don’t get is that Mr. Trump’s supposedly anti-Christian attributes and anti-democratic attributes are a vital part of his attraction.

Today’s Christian nationalists talk a good game about respecting the Constitution and America’s founders, but at bottom they sound as if they prefer autocrats to democrats. In fact, what they really want is a king. “It is God that raises up a king,” according to Paula White, a prosperity gospel preacher who has advised Mr. Trump.

Ralph Drollinger, who has led weekly Bible study groups in the White House attended by Vice President Mike Pence and many other cabinet members, likes the word “king” so much that he frequently turns it into a verb. “Get ready to king in our future lives,” he tells his followers. “Christian believers will — soon, I hope — become the consummate, perfect governing authorities!”

The great thing about kings like Cyrus, as far as today’s Christian nationalists are concerned, is that they don’t have to follow rules. They are the law. This makes them ideal leaders in paranoid times.

“When are they going to start rolling out the boxcars to start hauling off Christians?” Tony Perkins, the president of the Family Research Council, asked in 2016. If you’re hearing those boxcars pulling up in the distance, as it were, you don’t merely overlook the antisocial qualities of a prospective leader, you embrace them as virtues.

Mr. Trump himself well understands this longing for the hard hand of the despot “If you don’t mind me saying so, you’ve gotten soft,” he told Mr. Wallnau and other evangelical leaders during the 2016 campaign — much to their delight.

Another important thing to understand about Cyrus is that he is not a queen. In the Christian nationalist world, legitimate political power is largely male power. Mr. Drollinger insists that the Bible describes only “male leadership.”

Of course, there are those on the Christian right who have made a show of holding their noses while supporting Mr. Trump to advance their aims of stacking the Supreme Court or ending abortion. But we are kidding ourselves if we think their continuing support for him is purely transactional.

I have attended dozens of Christian nationalist conferences and events over the past two years. And while I have heard plenty of comments casting doubt on the more questionable aspects of Mr. Trump’s character, the gist of the proceedings almost always comes down to the belief that he is a miracle sent straight from heaven to bring the nation back to the Lord. I have also learned that resistance to Mr. Trump is tantamount to resistance to God.

This isn’t the religious right we thought we knew. The Christian nationalist movement today is authoritarian, paranoid and patriarchal at its core. They aren’t fighting a culture war. They’re making a direct attack on democracy itself.

They want it all. And in Mr. Trump, they have found a man who does not merely serve their cause, but also satisfies their craving for a certain kind of political leadership.

.................

Image
"God" is the original deus ex machina. --Maksutov
_Chap
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Re: Trump as the new King Cyrus

Post by _Chap »

Hmmph. Christians who like Trump, eh?

Psalm 146, Book of Common Prayer, 1662

I particularly commend attention to the bolded parts.

PSALM 146.

Lauda, anima mea

PRAISE the Lord, O my soul; while I live will I praise the Lord : yea, as long as I have any being, I will sing praises unto my God.

2 O put not your trust in princes, nor in any child of man : for there is no help in them.

3 For when the breath of man goeth forth he shall turn again to his earth : and then all his thoughts perish.


4 Blessed is he that hath the God of Jacob for his help : and whose hope is in the Lord his God;

5 Who made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that therein is : who keepeth his promise for ever;

6 Who helpeth them to right that suffer wrong : who feedeth the hungry.

7 The Lord looseth men out of prison : the Lord giveth sight to the blind.

8 The Lord helpeth them that are fallen : the Lord careth for the righteous.

9 The Lord careth for the strangers, he defendeth the fatherless and widow : as for the way of the ungodly, he turneth it upside down.


10 The Lord thy God, O Sion, shall be King for evermore : and throughout all generations.
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
_Maksutov
_Emeritus
Posts: 12480
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:19 pm

Re: Trump as the new King Cyrus

Post by _Maksutov »

Chap wrote:Hmmph. Christians who like Trump, eh?

Psalm 146, Book of Common Prayer, 1662

I particularly commend attention to the bolded parts.

PSALM 146.

Lauda, anima mea

PRAISE the Lord, O my soul; while I live will I praise the Lord : yea, as long as I have any being, I will sing praises unto my God.

2 O put not your trust in princes, nor in any child of man : for there is no help in them.

3 For when the breath of man goeth forth he shall turn again to his earth : and then all his thoughts perish.


4 Blessed is he that hath the God of Jacob for his help : and whose hope is in the Lord his God;

5 Who made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that therein is : who keepeth his promise for ever;

6 Who helpeth them to right that suffer wrong : who feedeth the hungry.

7 The Lord looseth men out of prison : the Lord giveth sight to the blind.

8 The Lord helpeth them that are fallen : the Lord careth for the righteous.

9 The Lord careth for the strangers, he defendeth the fatherless and widow : as for the way of the ungodly, he turneth it upside down.


10 The Lord thy God, O Sion, shall be King for evermore : and throughout all generations.


I suspect Trump is our Messiah of Thelema...

"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law." :eek:
"God" is the original deus ex machina. --Maksutov
_MeDotOrg
_Emeritus
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Re: Trump as the new King Cyrus

Post by _MeDotOrg »

Maksutov wrote:Today’s Christian nationalists talk a good game about respecting the Constitution and America’s founders, but at bottom they sound as if they prefer autocrats to democrats. In fact, what they really want is a king. “It is God that raises up a king,” according to Paula White, a prosperity gospel preacher who has advised Mr. Trump.

Let us pause here for a second and consider what Paula White is suggesting: The Divine Right of Kings. Gimmie some of that OLD TYME religion, from ye goode olde days.

So Say goodbye to the enlightenment and democracy folks. Just passing fads.

p.s.

If we have Lord Jesus to thank for President Trump, I will not be writing Jesus a Thank You card in the near future.
"The great problem of any civilization is how to rejuvenate itself without rebarbarization."
- Will Durant
"We've kept more promises than we've even made"
- Donald Trump
"Of what meaning is the world without mind? The question cannot exist."
- Edwin Land
_canpakes
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Re: Trump as the new King Cyrus

Post by _canpakes »

Jerry Falwell Jr.’s rationalization, on why it doesn’t matter if Trump is immoral or lies profusely:

”There’s two kingdoms. There’s the earthly kingdom and the heavenly kingdom. In the heavenly kingdom the responsibility is to treat others as you’d like to be treated. In the earthly kingdom, the responsibility is to choose leaders who will do what’s best for your country. Think about it. Why have Americans been able to do more to help people in need around the world than any other country in history? It’s because of free enterprise, freedom, ingenuity, entrepreneurism and wealth. A poor person never gave anyone a job. A poor person never gave anybody charity, not of any real volume. It’s just common sense to me.”
_Maksutov
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Re: Trump as the new King Cyrus

Post by _Maksutov »

MeDotOrg wrote:
Maksutov wrote:Today’s Christian nationalists talk a good game about respecting the Constitution and America’s founders, but at bottom they sound as if they prefer autocrats to democrats. In fact, what they really want is a king. “It is God that raises up a king,” according to Paula White, a prosperity gospel preacher who has advised Mr. Trump.

Let us pause here for a second and consider what Paula White is suggesting: The Divine Right of Kings. Gimmie some of that OLD TYME religion, from ye goode olde days.

So Say goodbye to the enlightenment and democracy folks. Just passing fads.

p.s.

If we have Lord Jesus to thank for President Trump, I will not be writing Jesus a Thank You card in the near future.


Democracy is a Muslim Marxist conspiracy. :eek:
"God" is the original deus ex machina. --Maksutov
_Chap
_Emeritus
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Re: Trump as the new King Cyrus

Post by _Chap »

canpakes wrote:Jerry Falwell Jr.’s rationalization, on why it doesn’t matter if Trump is immoral or lies profusely:

”There’s two kingdoms. There’s the earthly kingdom and the heavenly kingdom. In the heavenly kingdom the responsibility is to treat others as you’d like to be treated. In the earthly kingdom, the responsibility is to choose leaders who will do what’s best for your country. ...


Weird. The bolded section cites the well-known 'Golden Rule'

Matthew 7, 12:

Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.


This is part of the series of teachings by Jesus known as the 'Sermon on the Mount'. The opening section of that discourse, in Matthew 5, gives no indication that the injunctions it contains are in some way to be applied only in some kind of 'heavenly kingdom', while one continues to act in a quite different way in the 'earthly kingdom'. Quite the reverse:

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


Unless Mr Falwell has a different version of the Bible from mine, I think he needs to watch what he says ...

Matthew 5:

1And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him: 2 and he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying, 3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 4 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted. 5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth. 6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled. 7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy. 8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God. 9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. 10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness’ sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. 12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men. 14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. 15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. 16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: 22 but I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. 23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; 24 leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift. 25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison. 26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28 but I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. 29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. 30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. 31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: 32 but I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths: 34 but I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God’s throne: 35 nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King. 36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black. 37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: 39 but I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also. 41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. 42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.

43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45 that ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? 47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
_Maksutov
_Emeritus
Posts: 12480
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:19 pm

Re: Trump as the new King Cyrus

Post by _Maksutov »

MeDotOrg wrote:
Maksutov wrote:Today’s Christian nationalists talk a good game about respecting the Constitution and America’s founders, but at bottom they sound as if they prefer autocrats to democrats. In fact, what they really want is a king. “It is God that raises up a king,” according to Paula White, a prosperity gospel preacher who has advised Mr. Trump.

Let us pause here for a second and consider what Paula White is suggesting: The Divine Right of Kings. Gimmie some of that OLD TYME religion, from ye goode olde days.

So Say goodbye to the enlightenment and democracy folks. Just passing fads.

p.s.

If we have Lord Jesus to thank for President Trump, I will not be writing Jesus a Thank You card in the near future.


What about the divine King George's rights that were denied by the godless rebels throwing tea in the harbor? :lol:
"God" is the original deus ex machina. --Maksutov
_huckelberry
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Re: Trump as the new King Cyrus

Post by _huckelberry »

Chap, I think this is discussion a multibranched heresy of a serious sort. I am inclined to believe it grows out of dispensationalism. Is this a primarily American affair? I suspect it is but you would know more about the other side of the pond.
_Chap
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Re: Trump as the new King Cyrus

Post by _Chap »

huckelberry wrote:Chap, I think this is discussion a multibranched heresy of a serious sort. I am inclined to believe it grows out of dispensationalism. Is this a primarily American affair? I suspect it is but you would know more about the other side of the pond.


My theological experience is of the kind you would perhaps call Episcopalian. I never met anyone who identified themselves as a dispensationalist, and I had to look it up to remind myself what that meant.

Very, (very) oddly, I now realise that my first encounter with the term 'dispensation' in this sense was at the age of about ten, when I read an account of a world tour by three British cyclists. They visited Salt Lake City, where they were informed that the world was currently under the dispensation of Joseph Smith Jr.

See Round the World on a Wheel John Foster Fraser (1899).


p. 491
Salt Lake City, you must know, does not bear that name
among Mormons ; it is called Zion. The great Salt Lake is
the Dead Sea. A little stream goes by the name of the
Jordan. A knuckle of a hill is Mount Olivet. And the
Mormons are not Mormons; they are the Latter-day Saints.
They are the Lord's anointed, the elect. They don't argue
about the matter ; they are quite sure of their own salvation
and your damnation. Accordingly they are serene.

When Christ judges the earth His habitation will be the
temple that frowns over Salt Lake. It is a severe structure,
grey and heavily buttressed with sturdy towers. It is not
beautiful. Being Gentiles, and outside the pale, we were
not permitted to enter. But by all accounts Solomon's temple
was a washhouse in comparison.

Near the temple is the tabernacle. It is rather like a
whale; indeed very much like a whale. The roof looks
just like a whale stranded. No desecration, however, was committed by our presence. We entered with our boots
on, and that was a concession. On the Sunday afternoon
we formed part of a congregation of five thousand. At a push
the tabernacle will hold twelve thousand. At one end was the
great organ — "the finest in the world, sir, every part of it made
right here in Salt Lake by the Saints" — and in front was the
famous tabernacle choir, three hundred singers, two hundred
of them pretty Mormon maidens, given to finery, for their two
hundred hats or bonnets — the mere man never knows the
difference between the two — resembled in hues a tulip-bed,
and they were sucking candy and fanning themselves with
chants ; the men were ordinary men, rather uncomfortable in
starched collars.

Ranged in tiers on rostrums were a dozen elderly gentle-
men, three on each tier. On a table in front of each trio
was a jug, white, and as large as a washstand ewer. This
contained water to refresh the Twelve. The sermon was
preached by Bishop Whitney. He was a big, florid man,
growing bald, but the defect was hidden by hair carefully
plastered from the left ear over the crown till it met the right
ear. He had a large voice, and for a whole hour — it was
a stuffy summer afternoon — he perspired freely and talked
platitudes. The interesting point thrown at the Gentiles was
that the world is now under a third dispensation. The first
dispensation was that of Moses, the second that of Jesus
Christ, the third that of Joe Smith. Joe Smith was a
marvellous man. I had heard his name vaguely before,
but never till that Sunday did I realize how hopelessly I
had been groping in the dark. His name might have been
John, James, or Bill Smith, and I would have known no
better; but his name was Joseph, the lineal descendant
of Joseph who wore the multicoloured coat, and was a past
master in giving brotherly advice. That I learnt from Bishop
Whitney at the Mormon tabernacle service that drowsy after-
noon. There was no collection.
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
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