1992 to Today: Extrapolating Ignoreland

[_Analytics]

About 25 years ago now, REM released an album full of incredibly deep, introspective songs: Automatic for the People. Only one song on the album is a real rocker: Ignoreland. Ignoreland is about Michael Stripe's frustration with the direction America was going.

Here are the lyrics with some emphasis:

These bastards stole their power
From the victims of the Us v Them years
Wrecking all things virtuous and true
The undermining social democratic downhill slide into abysmal
Lost lamb off the precipice into the trickle down runoff pool
They hypnotized the summer, ninteen-seventy-nine
Marched into the capital brooding duplicitous
Wicked and able, media-ready
Heartless, and labeled
Super US citizen, super achiever
Mega ultra power dosing, relax
Defense, defense, defense, defense
Yeah, yeah, yeah
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Ignoreland

The information nation took their
Cues from all the sound-bite gluttons
1980, eighty four, eighty eight, ninety two too, too
How to be what you can be
Jump jam junking your energies
How to walk in dignity with throw up on your shoes
They amplified the autumn, ninteen-seventy-nine
Calculate the capital
Up the republic my skinny ass
TV tells a million lies
The paper's terrified to report
Anything that isn't handed on a presidential spoon
I'm just profoundly frustrated by all this
So, Screw you, man (“F” 'em)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Ignoreland

If they weren't there we would have created them
Maybe, it's true
But I'm resentful all the same
Someone's got to take the blame
I know that this is vitriol
No solution, spleen-venting
But I feel better having screamed
Don't you?

They desecrated winter, ninteen-seventy-nine
Capital collateral
Brooding duplicitous, wicked and able, media-ready
Heartless, and labeled
Super US citizen, super achiever
Mega ultra power dosing, relax
Defense, defense, defense, defense
Yeah, yeah, yeah
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Ignoreland

I did not do the revolution
Thank you

Looking back at it, I can't help but think the song was prophetic. Which raises the question, where are we going to be 25 years from now?

[_Markk]

TV tells a million lies
The paper's terrified to report
Anything that isn't handed on a presidential spoon
I'm just profoundly frustrated by all this

Anyone with a iPhone and a opinion is a instant scholar, theologian, politician, or journalist...and much more. It creates the ability for comfort to our needy ideologies, and feed our itchy ears. It creates both individual security, and yet instant division. It elevates and inflates our egos and makes us in our minds, what we want to be, but are not.

It reveals a side of us to millions in an instant, that should best be left to ourselves. It does not give us time to settle our thoughts, and think things out.

A twelve year old can take any subject, want, or concern on earth, and find security and support for their comfort or need on their hand held devices in a few seconds.

There is a responsibility that comes with gaining instant knowledge that is neither thought out or earned. We will need to figure out, the hard way, on how to deal with this.

It will be interesting to say the least where we will be in 25 years...the ability to be irresponsible and spread and unfortunately believe these "millions of (instant) lies" can't be healthy... hopefully for our children's sake's we will figure something out.

in my opinion, a great place to start is do a google search on P-hacking. LoL...As I wrote this last sentence I thought of Doc Holiday's wisdom https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ub8uMcLiKJk

[_EAllusion]

I think Markk is correct that in our modern age one of the biggest problems we face is the democratization of information has led people to lose deference to expertise and that this is very bad. I think there should be courses in high school dedicated solely to learning how to find and interpret sources. This occurs sporadically in various classes, but I think we're at a point where it needs to be its own subject.

What Micheal Stipe was complaining about press deference to presidential PR and its ability to frame national coverage. This was a bigger deal in the 80's and early 90's than it is now. Democrats like Stipe hated it because he was speaking in an era when Republicans had controlled the office for over a decade. There's been a significant loss of trust in the institution since then. Instead, we get a related, but different problem in that the press is still deferential to the power of the office, so it is willing to cover their narratives at least as "one side of the story" no matter how obviously suspect they are. Power gets you treated seriously, no matter how unserious you are. One of the two political parties exploits this weakness over and over with no end in sight.

[_Markk]

My bigger point is about responsibility. We seem to be losing respect and responsibility through boundaries for others. I think a class in manners at early ages in school is the good start. Saying yes sir and yes ma'am is not that horrible a thing. Saying thank you and opening doors for others is a good start. Moral character, no matter our faith or ideologies, is slowly going down the drain. With a good foundation of humility and responsibility... the chances of handling the responsibility of knowledge will increase.

Taking it further to your suggestion, "I think there should be courses in high school dedicated solely to learning how to find and interpret sources." Which is a great idea if it can be taught objectively and without bias...but I think it needs to start much earlier than at high school, or even jr. high or elementary school. It needs to start at home, by parents... when our children enter the information highway.

[_subgenius]

the song was "prophetic"? dude, the song was hella contemporary. Political Angst is timeless.

[_Markk]

This was a bigger deal in the 80's and early 90's than it is now. Democrats like Stipe hated it because he was speaking in an era when Republicans had controlled the office for over a decade. There's been a significant loss of trust in the institution since then. Instead, we get a related, but different problem in that the press is still deferential to the power of the office, so it is willing to cover their narratives at least as "one side of the story" no matter how obviously suspect they are. Power gets you treated seriously, no matter how unserious you are. One of the two political parties exploits this weakness over and over with no end in sight.

And access to now is instant, which makes it a hundred times more a problem. In the 80's-90's... I would buy a cup of coffee and a paper and get to work a half hour early and read the news, digest it, and maybe discuss the issues in my tight circle of friends and family. Today, it is non stop, and the audience is unlimited.

One thing I miss, in thinking back, is the "box scores" of MLB in the back of the sports page. Sports Center was cool for a while but for me, it made baseball a giant re-run. Which as an example, is kind of what is happening today in politics, from the Clinton and Bush "scandals," to Obama and Trump...the increase of media and access to it has created what we might call the "Truman show effect." A 24/7 interactive TV drama.

[_EAllusion]

I don't know. I come from an area of the country known for being polite and the lack of similar manners in other areas of the country always reads as a little weird to me. I say, "may, please, and thank you" reflexively. I smile and say hello to people walking down the street. I hold doors open for others. Cultures that don't do this come across as surly to me. But I don't take that as a proxy for responsibility or respect for others. The most historically bigoted and otherizing parts of the country are famously mannered. Southern plantation culture isn't known for its lack of manners. Manners can act as shibboleths to keep people in their place.

Taking it further to your suggestion, "I think there should be courses in high school dedicated solely to learning how to find and interpret sources." Which is a great idea if it can be taught objectively and without bias...

That's true of any subject. There already exists curriculum from the college level on down for understanding how to find and interpret sources. It's already embedded in other coursework. I just think it's become an important enough subject for it to be standalone.

The most valuable thing my science degrees gave me was the ability to know how to look up relevant research papers, understand them, and place them in context at a high level. My partner is in the medical profession, and a shockingly huge chunk of what they do is know how to google intelligently.

[_SteelHead]

Our children education used to be primarily focused around the acquisition of basic data. With information at their fingertips we need to transition into a greater focus on interpreting data, utilizing data, and determining valid data and conclusions from the overwhelming amounts of data both good and bad.

[_Markk]

You come from an area of the country where it is how I was raised. It is changing EA. We live in different worlds...literally.

[_Markk]

Our children education used to be primarily focused around the acquisition of basic data. With information at their fingertips we need to transition into a greater focus on interpreting data, utilizing data, and determining valid data and conclusions from the overwhelming amounts of data both good and bad.

Agree, and add this will create, hopefully, responsibility on how we use that data.

Calling people morons and stupid publicly...and judging character based on gossip and opinion is not setting a good example for anyone especially our children. And starting from the top, especially from or President...we are setting a very poor example for our children. I am certainly one of the most guilty saying horrible things about people on line who I do not even know over the years. I have been convicted of this big time over the past few years and am trying to do a better job at being, for lack of a more intelligent description, a nicer person, and more understanding...except to New England fans for the next two weeks. # Go Rams