David Duke backs Ilahn Omar

[_Markk]

Markk, should we ignore all of this ‘because Trump’? Or would it be prudent to take a look at it, regardless of what that look uncovers?

No we should try to stop all Russian meddling. But we need to be honest of what it is and when it started. This was all going on under someone else's watch, someone we have on tape telling a Putin assistant that once he is elected he will have more flexibility to make deals with him.

Should we spend equal time on Obama and Hillary in these regards?

The winner in all this is Russia, and it is not becasue of Trump, Obama, or Hillary, it is becasue of eagerness to hate.

I'll say this, in my opinion, it is more Trump's fault in that he can't keep his mouth shut, more so than for any collusion that has been proven. And the Democrat's fault for being inept... But overall it is our fault for letting our goverment run amuck. Look at this thread...I was hesitant to even jump in and knowing that no real conversation could come out of it, and sure enough, two our three posts in and the hate started.

[_Markk]

I guess I could break down this thread, show you why I demonstrated Russian meddling in our election, and why your comment was a non sequitur in relation to it, but it's a fool's errand to try and educate you on anything related to this investigation and the GOP.

Also, you don't read and I don't know how to communicate with someone, contextually, who doesn't read and is consistently situationally unaware.

- Doc

in my opinion you get upset when you get taken out of your self perceived scenarios, with common sense questions and when you scenario is taken apart, but again my opinion.

You are trying to force Trump being guilty of collusion, with Russia, in getting himself elected when it is just not there. You can rightfully say he is a loud mouth, insecure, egotistical, or other things like that, but there is no proof he colluded to get himself elected at all. In fact I think one can prove he thought he was going to lose like everyone else thought he would.

Trump like all presidents has done some stupid things, but he has also done some good things, very good things...but our hate won't allow any acknowledgment of that.

[_Themis]

Which (Russian meddling) has been going on since WW2? What I am discussing, or trying to, is that it is blamed on Trump with no proof. It happened under Obama, and the only proven shenanigans in regards to the election was by Hillary?

Give me a link to your information above, and you mentioned it went on for several years...what years?

I don't recall intelligence communities having stated the Russians did anything coming close to what they did in the last election, and that it was done to get Trump elected. Even If Trump is not an agent for Russia, he has done a lot more damage then good, and what he says and does fits very well with what Putin wants. Do you want Mueller's findings made public?

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

I guess I could break down this thread, show you why I demonstrated Russian meddling in our election, and why your comment was a non sequitur in relation to it, but it's a fool's errand to try and educate you on anything related to this investigation and the GOP.

Also, you don't read and I don't know how to communicate with someone, contextually, who doesn't read and is consistently situationally unaware.

- Doc

in my opinion you get upset when you get taken out of your self perceived scenarios, with common sense questions and when you scenario is taken apart, but again my opinion.

You are trying to force Trump being guilty of collusion, with Russia, in getting himself elected when it is just not there. You can rightfully say he is a loud mouth, insecure, egotistical, or other things like that, but there is no proof he colluded to get himself elected at all. In fact I think one can prove he thought he was going to lose like everyone else thought he would.

Trump like all presidents has done some stupid things, but he has also done some good things, very good things...but our hate won't allow any acknowledgment of that.

What part of this:

This gets at something I find deeply problematic in American politics - the view that it's a My Team v. Your Team arrangement where there are two sides locked in a zero sum game. This leads to all sorts of problems.

As to the OP, Democrats have been coming out publicly condemning her statements. Perhaps that is the take away you should grab onto, Ajax. Having principles, and letting them Trump partisan politics, is a good first step in having a functioning democractic society.

Do you you share this attitude toward the Russia investigation?

The Russian election meddling operation was a sophisticated attack against the West. This operation was funded through Russian fronts, including a catering company run by a close friend of Putin, Yevgeny Prigozhin. They used stolen American identities. Operatives bought political ads on social media sites. Operatives visited the United States, traveled across 9 states and discussed escape routes if they were caught inside the country. Operatives bought equipment including burner phones and SIM cards. The operation included hundreds of employees and millions of dollars. Prigozhin funded the Internet Research Agency and their meddling of the American election. This was a sophisticated operation that spanned over several years. Prigozhin has been Putin's go to guy for under the table missions including recruiting mercenaries for the conflicts in Ukraine and Syria.

- Doc

has anything to do with you introducing Trump and my equating the investigation into Russian meddling with my opinion over whether or not he's colluded with them?

If I get upset it's because you introduced Trump to the conversation, made some weird connection on this thread between my statement about Russian meddling and Trump's guilt/innocence.

Even now as I type this out I know it's futile and pointless to explain this to you, and yet I do it anyway. Why? I have no idea.

I mean, you can't even process why the Russians meddled in the election to get Trump elected in the first place, which would then lead you to some logical conclusions about the GOP and Russian geopolitical strategies if you did.

- Doc

[_canpakes]

Markk, should we ignore all of this ‘because Trump’? Or would it be prudent to take a look at it, regardless of what that look uncovers?

No we should try to stop all Russian meddling. But we need to be honest of what it is and when it started. This was all going on under someone else's watch, someone we have on tape telling a Putin assistant that once he is elected he will have more flexibility to make deals with him.

Should we spend equal time on Obama and Hillary in these regards?

Since you're now introducing something that has arguably nothing to do with this particular topic, can you continue and take this further, and tell me how you believe this 'more flexibility' comment by Obama affected elections, policy, or whatever it is about this that you believe warrants a closer look, and why? I believe that subs tried this same odd distraction in another thread but was left gobsmackingly slackjawed at trying to explain anything further. That's not surprising, but I have more faith that you might be able to take this beyond a diversionary but hollow conservative talking point and flesh things out a bit. Give it a go?

The winner in all this is Russia, and it is not becasue of Trump, Obama, or Hillary, it is becasue of eagerness to hate.

Judging by what I witnessed over the previous 10 years, that 'hate' has been on display in a great many ways for quite a while now, and even fed some time ago by actions of the man currently President, with his promotion of birther talk and crass demonization of anyone and everyone that he doesn't agree with. And his favorite cable channel has been feeding into that for a while as well.

Of course, you'll tell me that you'd expect me to say this, and then we'll talk no further about it. But we should, as you'd say, "be honest of what it is and when it started."

I'll say this, in my opinion, it is more Trump's fault in that he can't keep his mouth shut, more so than for any collusion that has been proven. And the Democrat's fault for being inept...

In what way(s) is it Trump's fault due to his inability to keep his mouth shut? What do you have in mind?

And is there a problem with examining any claimed Democratic ineptitude via Mueller's investigation? Why does Trump rant so often about needing to shut down the investigation? And why are we netting pretty much only Republicans and Trump associates with this investigation so far?

[_Markk]

I think your getting upset goes much deeper. What I wrote to Hor' had everything to do with Trump, in that if you noticed, the news cycle has made it about Trump for the past 2 years after Hillary loss. In fact I would venture to say that the Trump/Russia issue may have replaced DCP as the main conversation at MD's. If Hillary had won, it would not be an issue, and you wouldn't be discussing it to anywhere of the degree you do, and you know it.

Well, especially given the news toady, it is becoming more and more clear that there is no tie to Trump and Russia, and you all of a sudden making it an issue without Trump being center issue is ingenuous in my view.

At what point is Trump owed an apology from all the personal accusations?

If we are going to focus just on the meddling, Trump aside, should we focus on the previous administration total lack of understanding what was going on? For it occurring on their watch? Should we focus a little more on Obama being inept in his statements that the Russians could not interfere with an American election?

To be clear Trump deserves a lot of criticism, but it appears more and more his calling this a witch hunt is not one of them.

[_Markk]

I don't recall intelligence communities having stated the Russians did anything coming close to what they did in the last election, and that it was done to get Trump elected. Even If Trump is not an agent for Russia, he has done a lot more damage then good, and what he says and does fits very well with what Putin wants. Do you want Mueller's findings made public?

Yes I want made public, big time.

It is the left and folks like you that are playing into Russia's hand...what do you think Putin thinks when he see' Americans saying things like..."Even If Trump is not an agent for Russia..."
? Russia is Laughing at the American people Themis.

We now have candidates coming up that want Israel gone, and meat eating will destroy the planet, and no more fossil fuels in twelve years...unbelievable..it is all Trump's fault.

I don't recall intelligence communities having stated the Russians did anything coming close to what they did in the last election, and that it was done to get Trump elected.

HuH...not sure what you mean here?

[_Markk]

Canpakes wrote...In what way(s) is it Trump's fault due to his inability to keep his mouth shut? What do you have in mind?

He feeds the hate. He is not Presidential, or respectful to the office. If he could somehow be just a little bit humble, and throw his cellphone away, so far, and I say so far...he would be a great President.

[_MeDotOrg]

This reminds me of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

I think your getting upset goes much deeper. What I wrote to Hor' had everything to do with Trump, in that if you noticed, the news cycle has made it about Trump for the past 2 years after Hillary loss. In fact I would venture to say that the Trump/Russia issue may have replaced DCP as the main conversation at MD's. If Hillary had won, it would not be an issue, and you wouldn't be discussing it to anywhere of the degree you do, and you know it.

Well, especially given the news toady, it is becoming more and more clear that there is no tie to Trump and Russia, and you all of a sudden making it an issue without Trump being center issue is ingenuous in my view.

At what point is Trump owed an apology from all the personal accusations?

If we are going to focus just on the meddling, Trump aside, should we focus on the previous administration total lack of understanding what was going on? For it occurring on their watch? Should we focus a little more on Obama being inept in his statements that the Russians could not interfere with an American election?

To be clear Trump deserves a lot of criticism, but it appears more and more his calling this a witch hunt is not one of them.

Aaaand here it is. The exact reason why I wrote about futility. You are the embodiment of the American electorate. You can't read with comprehension. You don't really research anything. You're uneducable. You engage in wild veerings within conversations not really understanding the context in the first place, and then acting like a victim when people point out the dumbassery of it all.

This is just an impossible task, and it's the exact reason why someone like Mueller needs to exist and be allowed to do his job. If it were up to people like you your proof could only be presented in a video confession while Trump, his managers, and GOP leadership twisted their handlebar mustaches while tip toeing away with briefcases full of money. Or whatever. Whatever works for your addled brains.

- Doc