Mcabe admits plan to oust Trump

[_Themis]

Why do people stay in the US and pay such outrageous prices for medical care and treatment? ?

Because they have to.

Why not flee to these countries offering universal healthcare?

It's not that easy. Americans do go to Canada and other countries and pay for some of their health care, but getting free medical care has rules and criteria one has to meet to have it paid for through the government paid system. An illegal immigrant cannot just show up at a medical clinic to have say a physical exam. That doesn't mean an illegal immigrant the country knows about cannot get access to the system as their immigration case works it way through the system if they are allowed to stay while it is worked out.

It looks like you don't even have to be a legal tax paying citizen to get this great free care.

Funny thing is health care in these countries cost citizens significantly less the in the US for the same or sometimes better care.

So why aren't US doctors out of business?

They have a system that allows them to charge high prices for most Americans who don't have better alternatives. In many universal systems an independent body determines a fair prices doctors can charge for a medical service covered by universal health care, meaning most health care in these countries is owned and operated by private companies.

[_ajax18]

That doesn't mean an illegal immigrant the country knows about cannot get access to the system as their immigration case works it way through the system if they are allowed to stay while it is worked out.

So in theory if I were diagnosed with cancer, I could just cross the border to Canada and inform the government that I'm seeking economic asylum and hardship from high medical costs. Once the government knows this I could start my chemotherapy Monday at the expense of the Canadian taxpayer without myself paying more than a nominal amount of say $20 in copays.

Since it's universal and not just worldwide, do you still have to be human get free healthcare? What about animals or even alien invaders?

I think most immigrants come to America rather than countries with free healthcare because America is where the wages are highest. If foreign healthcare were so great, they'd undoubtedly go on to Canada especially if they became to sick to work. But they don't.

[_EAllusion]

Ajax18 - It appears you think that if a country offered universal health care to anyone who resides there, then everyone would flock to that country to take advantage of the system. Every single Western democracy besides the United States does offer universal health care, though, and most make that available to all residents. So we have this problem that people aren't flocking to those countries to take advantage of their health care in a way that overwhelms the system like you predict.

So, looking at this state of affairs, you decide the only reasonable conclusion is that their health care must suck so bad that people without any access to health care at all, including people dying of serious illnesses, just avoid it?

Is that it?

(P.S. The median Canadian makes slightly more than the median American after taxes even with their more robust social welfare system. Americans have a higher per-capita GDP, but that's because America has more wealth concentrated at the top. Go figure.)

[_Kevin Graham]

Michael Moore's documentary SICKO was revealing. He traveled to Canada, France and even Cuba and was able to get free healthcare for Americans be brought with him. The clinic in Canada eventually called the cops because they didn't understand why there were cameras filming. But they were able to sign in for healthcare with nothing more than a passport ID. He also interviewed Canadians who were afraid to come to the United States without first buying health insurance because if something happened they could be forced to file bankruptcy to pay for simple surgeries.

I suggest you watch the entire movie, it is free to view online.

At the 1:47 mark they're in a pharmacy in Cuba and the American lady with health problems said something that had cost $120.00 in the USA. Moore asked the pharmacist how much it was there and she said 3.20 pesos which was equal to .05 cents.

[_ajax18]

Is that it?

What do you think motivates people to pay high healthcare costs in the US rather than go across the border and get if for next to nothing?

(P.S. The median Canadian makes slightly more than the median American after taxes even with their more robust social welfare system. Americans have a higher per-capita GDP, but that's because America has more wealth concentrated at the top. Go figure.)

Why haven't you emigrated to Canada along with Rosie O'Donnell, Quasimodo, Schmo and the other liberals who promised to leave after DJT was elected? If the wages are higher, why do we not see a mass migration to Canada?

[_Themis]

That doesn't mean an illegal immigrant the country knows about cannot get access to the system as their immigration case works it way through the system if they are allowed to stay while it is worked out.

So in theory if I were diagnosed with cancer, I could just cross the border to Canada and inform the government that I'm seeking economic asylum and hardship from high medical costs. Once the government knows this I could start my chemotherapy Monday at the expense of the Canadian taxpayer without myself paying more than a nominal amount of say $20 in copays.

No. I don't know the rules all that well, but there are rules and an American has little chance of being accepted. I suspect an illegal immigrant would need to meet certain criteria to gain free access.

Since it's universal and not just worldwide, do you still have to be human get free healthcare? What about animals or even alien invaders?

Universal here would mean for all citizens/residents, but of course there are exceptions. Keep in mind that even legal and illegal immigrants end up paying taxes in some form just living in a country. Also I am not suggesting there is not an issue of illegal immigration, but the issue is complex with no easy answers.

I think most immigrants come to America rather than countries with free healthcare because America is where the wages are highest. If foreign healthcare were so great, they'd undoubtedly go on to Canada especially if they became to sick to work. But they don't.

America is not the country where wages are the highest, and you reveal your shallow understanding. People immigrate for a variety of reasons, universal health care only being one, and probably not the biggest one. Lots of other countries have problems with illegal immigrants, including Canada. Canada's advantage is we are harder to get to, but some of people who cross the border into the US just keep on going North. Also about half of illegal immigrants in the US are people who came legally. I suspect that number is probably much higher in Canada since we only have a border with the US. Building a Wall is not going to do anything about the problem and just waste a lot of money Americans cannot afford to spend with such a massive debt and deficit Trump is causing to go higher. Where did all the fiscal conservatives go Ajax?

[_Themis]

What do you think motivates people to pay high healthcare costs in the US rather than go across the border and get if for next to nothing?

Because they have to.

Why haven't you emigrated to Canada along with Rosie O'Donnell, Quasimodo, Schmo and the other liberals who promised to leave after DJT was elected? If the wages are higher, why do we not see a mass migration to Canada?

Because people don't move just because they are paying too much for health care, and other countries don't just let people in. While some people have come to Canada to escape what they don't like in the US, most don't because of a variety of other reasons, including some finding out it is not as simple as showing up at the border.

[_EAllusion]

Is that it?

What do you think motivates people to pay high healthcare costs in the US rather than go across the border and get if for next to nothing?

A lack of familiarity with how to navigate the system coupled with a very strong attachment to place of origin and its social entanglements would be my guess. I do know the Canadian health care system is good enough that dying isn’t preferable to it. Health care isn’t the sole determinant of people’s living arrangements.

Why haven't you emigrated to Canada along with Rosie O'Donnell, Quasimodo, Schmo and the other liberals who promised to leave after DJT was elected? If the wages are higher, why do we not see a mass migration to Canada?

I am just pointing out the factual issue with your assertion. If you believe that it is proper to emigrate to the nation with higher median wages, then it is you who should be packing your bags. It’s also an odd mindset for a person living in one of the poorest states in the US.

[_EAllusion]

Canada actually has much better health outcomes than the US for much lower per capita spending. If you oppose their health care system, you don’t bury your head in the sand about this fact and invent an alternative reality where Canadians get garbage health care. You try to make a case why your political preferences when taken on the whole produce a better and/or more just outcome.

[_ajax18]

including some finding out it is not as simple as showing up at the border.

What gives your country the moral right to have and enforce a border? Don't you welcome any and all immigrants?

Also I am not suggesting there is not an issue of illegal immigration, but the issue is complex with no easy answers.

Meaning bottom line you don't believe a sovereign nation has a moral right to enforce its border, right?