Kamala blasts Pence for refusing to meet women alone

[_canpakes]

Didn't Kamala sleep with her employer?

- Doc

It would seem so. But I can't prove it.

You could hire her. : )

[_Jersey Girl]

What discrimination?

The discrimination being referred to in this thread title. I know you were a fan of this policy last time it was discussed, but I don't think you need to be obtuse about it. Mike Pence does not have a policy of not meeting with men alone.

What do you mean I was a fan of this policy last time it was discussed? Are you referring to the sexual harassment thread where you said that's how things are done in Hollywood and then SAG-AFTRA and tv stations came out and took measures to eliminate the casting couch; the very thing we were discussing?

Again, you have no common sense. You cry discrimination about a policy that prevents the potential for sexual impropriety and false allegations. You'd rather see everyone left wide open to both, you support practices that create victims, rather than institute common sense safeguards.

Nowhere in your comments here do I see that you've admitted that Harris took Pence's comments and twisted them up to mean something that suits her agenda.

Possibly because it suits your own agenda.

[_EAllusion]

What do you mean I was a fan of this policy last time it was discussed? Are you referring to the sexual harassment thread where you said that's how things are done in Hollywood and then SAG-AFTRA and tv stations came out and took measures to eliminate the casting couch; the very thing we were discussing?

That's not a ballpark honest characterization of what I said. I reread that exchange just now and good lord is it even worse than I remember. A more accurate summary is you attacked women for being foolish enough to meet a man in a hotel room for a job interview and I repeatedly tried to explain that "hotel room" in this case meant something much more akin to meeting in a conference room for a job interview and did not signal danger in the way you thought. Helpfully, you argued that it is foolish of women to meet men in offices too.

That you take reforms of "casting couch" situations as vindication of what you were arguing there is straight up bananas. Did SAG also issue victim-blaming statements that chastise women for taking business meetings?

Again, you have no common sense. You cry discrimination about a policy that prevents the potential for sexual impropriety and false allegations. You'd rather see everyone left wide open to both, you support practices that create victims, rather than institute common sense safeguards.

Once we unpack "common sense safeguards" to include things like "men shouldn't agree to interview women for jobs alone" that was indeed your argument. So it sounds like you answered your own question.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Can anyone dredge up people who've talked about being denied alone time with Pence? Also, has Pence's personal and professional standard of conduct caused others to change how they do business, or has that been a result of the #metoo mess?

- Doc

[_EAllusion]

Can anyone dredge up people who've talked about being denied alone time with Pence? Also, has Pence's personal and professional standard of conduct caused others to change how they do business, or has that been a result of the #metoo mess?

- Doc

Mike Pence himself said he won't meet women alone for meals such as business lunches. If that was a policy applies across the board, he wouldn't have specified women. And if you argue that Mike Pence never has or will come across a situation where a man would have that opportunity, that both makes it a superfluous thing to say and suggests that Mike Pence has a professional life that is atypically cloistered in a way that also is worth being skeptical of. Fortunately, we know that explanation is implausible because Mike Pence has never defended against this criticism by adopting this defense. It actually would be easy to remove the gender discrimination element here, though it could easily be called out if Mike Pence hasn't behaved that way.

So, rather than looking at this, you retreat into demanding that someone produce a woman who knows she was denied an opportunity. First, you have to clear a hurdle of there being a woman who was allowed to get close to Mike Pence, but has no problem feeding criticism of him. Then that women has to be aware of specific opportunities denied to her granted to male colleagues. That's a tough ask even if it occurred. And totally unnecessary when criticizing Mike Pence's explicit position. What are you even saying at that point? Mike Pence's misogynistic views on male/female relations is only hypothetical because you can't prove he hasn't had opportunities to take advantage of it? That's also not good, you know.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Can anyone dredge up people who've talked about being denied alone time with Pence? Also, has Pence's personal and professional standard of conduct caused others to change how they do business, or has that been a result of the #metoo mess?

- Doc

Mike Pence himself said he won't meet women alone for meals such as business lunches.

And? That's his business.

If that was a policy applies across the board, he wouldn't have specified women.

Yeah, no crap.

And if you argue

I'll just stop you there. This is where you create the strawman. Lame.

What are you even saying at that point?

I'm fairly certain I typed clearly.

Mike Pence's misogynistic views on male/female relations is only hypothetical because you can't prove he hasn't had opportunities to take advantage of it?

Begging the question.

You really need to think about how you argue a point. You're a fallacy machine. If you want to get back to a point that's being discussed rather than your typical fantasy scenarios it might be more productive.

- Doc

[_Jersey Girl]

What do you mean I was a fan of this policy last time it was discussed? Are you referring to the sexual harassment thread where you said that's how things are done in Hollywood and then SAG-AFTRA and tv stations came out and took measures to eliminate the casting couch; the very thing we were discussing?

That's not a ballpark honest characterization of what I said. I reread that exchange just now and good lord is it even worse than I remember. A more accurate summary is you attacked women for being foolish enough to meet a man in a hotel room for a job interview and I repeatedly tried to explain that "hotel room" in this case meant something much more akin to meeting in a conference room for a job interview and did not signal danger in the way you thought. Helpfully, you argued that it is foolish of women to meet men in offices too.

That you take reforms of "casting couch" situations as vindication of what you were arguing there is straight up bananas. Did SAG also issue victim-blaming statements that chastise women for taking business meetings?

Again, you have no common sense. You cry discrimination about a policy that prevents the potential for sexual impropriety and false allegations. You'd rather see everyone left wide open to both, you support practices that create victims, rather than institute common sense safeguards.

Once we unpack "common sense safeguards" to include things like "men shouldn't agree to interview women for jobs alone" that was indeed your argument. So it sounds like you answered your own question.

What's foolish are the men and women who accepted the so-called "standards and conditions" that were accepted practice in Hollywood going back decades. A Harvey Weinstein, were he of a mind to, could get over on someone like you in a hotel room in 5 seconds flat. No question about it.

You have no common sense. You have no street smarts at all.

You'd rather a Pence suspend such practices that show respect for himself and his associates, as well as his wife, leave both he and they wide open for allegations so you can crucify him like our truly misogynistic President who demonstrates no respect for anything or anyone but himself and his brand.

Nowhere on this thread has Pence's policy been quoted and only referred to. Harris, and now you, have blown it out of proportion and put the most contemptible spin on this policy that one could imagine without having a primary source for his statements to start with.

The man chooses to act with integrity and character and you cry discrimination. A man who acts with principle towards his marriage and his position, likely acts with principle in all his political and business relationships and if he didn't, EA, his name would be plastered all over media with accusations by women he's discriminated against.

But we don't see accusations of discrimination against him by any women who have been denied access except by people like you and a Kamala Harris who only imagine that he does discriminate against women where there exists no discrimination at all.

We'll see if the other shoe drops. So far it hasn't.

[_Jersey Girl]

Can anyone dredge up people who've talked about being denied alone time with Pence? Also, has Pence's personal and professional standard of conduct caused others to change how they do business, or has that been a result of the #metoo mess?

- Doc

I've seen no comment to the effect that people have complained being denied access.

"others to change how they do business"...who are you thinking about here?

As to his "personal and professional standard of conduct" we should appreciate that he does exercise a standard of conduct unlike his boss who has no standard of conduct at all.

I may not appreciate his political positions, but I think the man has both feet in the real world and he's not playing.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

I met with a couple of people from the Mayor's office recently, to discuss doing a thing for the city. They happened to both be women, incidentally. My wife was accompanying me, mainly because we seem to be attached at the hip these days. They indicated it was up to me to bring her along, or not, and I chose to bring her because I like her company.

I never once felt disrespected nor disadvantaged because there were two of them, even though it was clear only one of them was doing the interviewing. Apparently it was fine that I brought my wife with me because now I'm going to do the thing.

It appears that in some people's world having additional people at the meeting was a result of some bizarre power imbalance, even though I can't quite figure it out. Viewing the world through the lens of power and culpability must be exhausting, but there you have it and here we are.

Crazy.

- Doc

[_EAllusion]

Mike Pence himself said he won't meet women alone for meals such as business lunches.

And? That's his business.

I think it's already been explained why gender discrimination in this way is bad. If you want to say that's his prerogative, it's also our prerogative to condemn people who do that.