Kamala blasts Pence for refusing to meet women alone

[_EAllusion]

Who here has argued that Pence’s evangelical beliefs prove he is an idiot?

http://mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3/vie ... 1#p1172681

- Doc

Fair enough. I hadn't read that yet.

[_EAllusion]

He doesn't exclude them from dinner. He has made a personal decision that he doesn't do one on one dinners with member of the opposite sex. So what. Does that mean he discriminates against women? Or blocks their possible opportunities? I certainly don't think so but if you do, fine. We take different positions on the matter.

Remember that scene in The Chapelle show where Rick James takes offense at the suggestion that he was grinding his feet in Eddie Murphy's couch, then immediately states that yeah, he remembers grinding his feet in Eddie's couch?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bC5LaHUnQMA

[_Res Ipsa]

Thank you Ceebs. Apology much appreciated and accepted. And I apologize for the in your face way I tried to make my point.

[_Ceeboo]

Apology much appreciated and accepted.

Thanks.

And I apologize for the in your face way I tried to make my point.

No worries.

[_Jersey Girl]

Okay, I read it, RI. I'll get you up a response shortly here.

[_Some Schmo]

Who here has argued that Pence’s evangelical beliefs prove he is an idiot?

viewtopic.php?p=1172681#p1172681

- Doc

Fair enough. I hadn't read that yet.

Fair enough, EA? You think that's a fair reading of that post? "Pence’s evangelical beliefs prove he is an idiot?" You think it's even close to the point made?

It's little wonder, despite your often insightful posts, you are still the target of so much hostility. Sometimes, you're daft as a stick. It's damned weird.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Oh, it's been obvious for years just how seriously religious people take morality. For them, it's more a topic than a practice. They talk about it without actually worrying about it.

If you believe a god was born of a virgin, walked on water before turning it to wine, was tortured to death in a symbolic sacrifice for all of humanity's sins only to rise to heaven, and all the other attendant nonsense Christianity exclusively peddles...

Just a reminder Kamala Harris is a Baptist.

- Doc

[_EAllusion]

Fair enough, EAllusion? You think that's a fair reading of that post? "Pence’s evangelical beliefs prove he is an idiot?" You think it's even close to the point made?

I think it's relatively close to the idea that religion makes people effectively stupid. Since Mike Pence is religious, the conclusion follows. I know you are trying to say that religion predisposes people to reasoning poorly so they are more open to believing nonsense, but when you say that in the way you do, that's pretty close just calling someone an idiot. I don't think the target of your ire there was Mike Pence, but probably religious posters in this thread, and even more specifically, Ceeboo.

But yes, Schmo, religion can teach people poor habits of mind.

[_Jersey Girl]

RI I read the article in The Atlantic here: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... Relief Society/449367/

Bringing that forward for others.

The article is dated 2015. It lists instances of denied access and other decisions/behaviors that were felt to be insulting to women involved. It also gives examples of how some people such as Jason Chavez have made an effort to create work arounds to provide access during business hours and that sort of thing.

This reminded me of something else. Here's a link to a March 2018 letter signed off by female senators (including Kamala Harris) complaining about the lack of effective measures in dealing with work place sexual offenses in DC itself.

https://www.murray.senate.gov/public/_c ... reform.pdf

Here are my only comments at the moment. These people live in a world that is completely foreign to me. The female senators note how many females dealt with workplace harassment and/or discrimination on the part of male counterparts, it discusses trainings and penalties.

It discusses everything but prevention. In The Atlantic article we read this:

It's no secret that Congress is dominated by men, but as women work to make inroads in the congressional boys club, some female staffers face a huge impediment to moving up: They're not allowed to spend one-on-one time with their male bosses.

It's very true that women have integrated into the "congressional boys club" and they're rightfully proud of it. So am I proud to see it happen. But what I see as a female who has worked in male dominated professions and with a bit of time and mileage under my belt, I see a mindset where women are rightfully proud of breaking through barriers, have worked hard to do it, and particularly because they have inserted themselves into positions that were previously dominated by males.

At the same time...they can't seem to acknowledge that the practices (such as business dinners, meetings outside of the office) were all practices created when the positions were held by predominantly males. Women are happy to have infiltrated the "boys club" but they selectively acknowledge that it is or was a boys club when it suits them--bragging rights.

The female senators who signed off on the linked to letter, acknowledge that harassment and discrimination is a problem. They apparently reject (at least does Kamala Harris) the idea that a male has a right to modify his own policies in order to prevent such abuse from taking place and cry "discrimination" on account of it when there are obviously work arounds to be had and if the women were truly interested in change in the workplace, they would be support such measures that create practices that prevent it.

Instead of crying...Discrimination! Discrimination! Discrimination! ---one note wonders.

They should be working on contributing to the creation of practices that help prevent such discrimination, harassment, and/or sexual behaviors from taking place.

They want to integrate into the "boys club" without acknowledging that their presence makes a difference to the dynamic interaction within the "boys club", they want to be treated as equals, they know they are being harassed and when males try to accommodate their presence, they reject that idea, too and instead of cooperatively and collaboratively suggesting improvements in the actual day to day practices, they condemn those who try to make them.

For "F"s sake.

If it's been a matter of "this is how it's always been done" then with the integration of females into the workplace then the damned practices need to change along with that integration. Otherwise it's a long drone of outcry with no progress being made.

Women want to be in the boys club, they want to make their mark and they will, but they want their impact recognized when it suits them. They are rightfully proud of their hard work, their climb to success, I as a female think they on account of their intelligence, their know how, their education, their drive and their female perspectives am proud as “F” that they are in there. That said, to think that they are there to change the face of DC without their presence impacting previously held practices is simply irrational.

The above linked letter disappoints me. It discusses trainings, processes and does everything but offer solutions to the problem and when males make modifications to avoid scandal or harm for all concerned, they bitch about that, too.

If they want to make a respected contribution to the dialogue and practices, I would like to see them offer workable solutions about transforming the way that business is done in DC.

I'm sure I haven't expressed myself fully or possibly even coherently. I've lost interest in the discussion for reasons that I think I've already stated on the thread.

[_Some Schmo]

But yes, Schmo, religion can teach people poor habits of mind.

Good, and I'm sure we agree that's not the same as calling someone "effectively stupid." We've all seen smart people get suckered, so the distinction is worth pointing out, given the current political environment.

Doc's interpretation of my post was typical. He superimposes his own crap everywhere. You of all people know this.

You're right; I wasn't thinking of Pence or Harris in that post. The comment was about the effect of religion on the electorate.