Kamala blasts Pence for refusing to meet women alone

[_EAllusion]

Jersey Girl - Do you think it is possible to address workplace harassment without discriminating against women? I do, so when you claim that women are contradicting themselves when they complain about harassment on the one hand, but then also complain about discrimination on the other when they are discriminated against as a "solution" to harassment, it looks really poorly thought out. If that's what you think, you should be more clear about this double-bind you imagine exists and why. As it stands, you just come off as someone who is insisting that if you cared about not being harassed, you'd endorse policies that inappropriately discriminate against you instead. Any number of analogies can fit this template, and they probably all would sound absurd to you.

[_EAllusion]

Good, and I'm sure we agree that's not the same as calling someone "effectively stupid."

It is when those poor habits of mind are so severe that it means something tantamount to what we mean when we call people idiots and stupid. Look at how you worded that point again.

[_Jersey Girl]

Jersey Girl - Do you think it is possible to address workplace harassment without discriminating against women? I do, so when you claim that women are contradicting themselves when they complain about harassment on the one hand, but then also complain about discrimination on the other when they are discriminated against as a "solution" to harassment, it looks really poorly thought out. If that's what you think, you should be more clear about this double-bind you imagine exists and why. As it stands, you just come off as someone who is insisting that if you cared about not being harassed, you'd endorse policies that inappropriately discriminate against you instead. Any number of analogies can fit this template, and they probably all would sound absurd to you.

I think that women can be co-constructors of new and innovative practices.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Doc's interpretation of my post was typical. He superimposes his own crap everywhere.

Whoa. Looks like SS has reached total enlightenment, and somehow has escaped basic human psychology. Good on him, man. Good for him.



It's amazing to me how someone can show up to a thread, act like a little crap, and then bemoan the fact someone notices he's acting like a little crap. *pearl clutching intensifies*

- Doc

[Alf'Omega]

Good, and I'm sure we agree that's not the same as calling someone "effectively stupid."

It is when those poor habits of mind are so severe that it means something tantamount to what we mean when we call people idiots and stupid. Look at how you worded that point again.

This thread is a great example of how religion is intellectual AIDS. It essentially weakens your immunity to BS.

Point taken. So I'll clarify.

I've been pondering this issue given the immovable Trump base, and since I know otherwise intelligent people who voted for him, I don't think of them as stupid as much as conned. So how does one account for it?

The one thing they all have in common (among the people I know) is some heavy religious involvement. I don't think that's a coincidence. The Trump MAGA following has all the hallmarks of a cult. His lack of fitness couldn't be more obvious, but apparently, the lord dances with the devil, to get 'er done.

Ever notice how we have to worry about their feelings? They never need worry about everyone else's? Otherwise, Trump 2020? It's a damned cult.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

What I find interesting about this manufactured drama, this outrage Leftists seem to be producing on a feedback loop, is Pence deciding he won't have dinner or drinks alone with another woman would most likely be limited to his kind of people. GOP'ers. Christians. Employees. Stuff like that. Since when had the Left given two craps whether or not a Conservative staffer, a GOP partisan, or a Christian gets face time with Pence?

The idea that Pence's personal code of conduct will bleed over to industry or other government agencies, that Pence himself is such a zeitgeist of modern gender relations as to drive mass male recalcitrance toward feminism, is laughable. And yet, here we are watching people lose their crap on Ceeboo because Pence won't have dinner or drinks alone with women.

damned bananas.

- Doc

[_EAllusion]

What I find interesting about this manufactured drama, this outrage Leftists seem to be producing on a feedback loop, is Pence deciding he won't have dinner or drinks alone with another woman would most likely be limited to his kind of people. GOP'ers. Christians. Employees. Stuff like that. Since when had the Left given two ____ whether or not a Conservative staffer, a GOP partisan, or a Christian gets face time with Pence?

The idea that Pence's personal code of conduct will bleed over to industry or other government agencies, that Pence himself is such a zeitgeist of modern gender relations as to drive mass male recalcitrance toward feminism, is laughable. And yet, here we are watching people lose their ____ on Ceeboo because Pence won't have dinner or drinks alone with women.

____ bananas.

- Doc

This of the same species of argument that goes, "What do you care if the LDS Church discriminates against the children of LBGTQ parents? You're not Mormon." Some of us care about people that are not us and would prefer organizations and people treat others well even if we are not personally affected.

There most certainly are GOP women who would not want to be discriminated against in this way. There are evangelical women who would not. Talk to Ms. Jack. But even if that were not the case, we can still point out that this is harmful to them and why and hope to persuade people to treat others better.

Ceeboo is defending a broadened Pence rule where he never meets alone with women. And he's defending it with asinine attacks on others that stake out a range of bad arguments. Hence the replies.

[_Themis]

He doesn't exclude them from dinner. He has made a personal decision that he doesn't do one on one dinners with member of the opposite sex. So what. Does that mean he discriminates against women?

In regards to one on one dinners, yes he discriminates against women. Discriminating is not necessarily bad or good. It depends on what we discriminate against. We discriminate when we don't allow children to buy beer. I suspect everyone agrees that is good. The issue is whether this discrimination is bad or good, but that needs some discussion about how that discrimination may affect women. Particularly in professional work.

Or blocks their possible opportunities? I certainly don't think so but if you do, fine. We take different positions on the matter.

No one has said he intentionally blocks their opportunists. He may or he may not. The issue is whether not meeting one on one can block potential opportunities. If it does would that be unfair to women?

[_DoubtingThomas]

One of the ways people develop influence is by meeting alone with people. Even when that is not the purpose of such meetings, it can have that implicit effect. If women can't do that with men in power, but men can, that puts them at a inherent disadvantage to men.

Do you believe it is appropriate for a male boss to meet with a female employee in a hotel room to talk about business?

[_DoubtingThomas]

over the fact that same-sex assault/harassment and false allegations can occur too. Men can be or say they were assaulted by men. Men can have affairs with men. Yet Mike Pence ain't out there refusing to meet alone with men. Apparently integrity doesn't extend to that.

Do you have some statistics?