Two Parkland Survivors have committed suicide.

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_Maksutov
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Re: Two Parkland Survivors have committed suicide.

Post by _Maksutov »

Jersey Girl wrote:
Maksutov wrote:Wait a minute. My eyeroll is for the folks who DON'T give a ____.

Understand, people? If I didn't care about this I would never bring it up. Jesus H. Christ. What kind of hair triggers are y'all on, anyway?


Instead of noting what you see has hair triggers, you might noted the ____ written Op that supplied the missing detail that you have just provided.

Hair triggers. Nice touch. :rolleyes:


My family is about 75% NRA members. I even blew up over this and related stuff at a birthday party. I've had people block me on Facebook. I support the MFOL kids, not because I think they have all the answers, but because they need a voice. I'm tired of gun manufacturers and the NRA dominating the conversation. We're supposed to accept this crazy situation but freak out over alleged Sharia conspiracies. The Parkland kids are still dying. Alex Jones still hasn't had to face the music over his monstrous witch hunt against victims' families. So I keep talking about it.

That's why I started this thread. Capice?
"God" is the original deus ex machina. --Maksutov
_Jersey Girl
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Re: Two Parkland Survivors have committed suicide.

Post by _Jersey Girl »

Jersey Girl wrote:
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:I kind of do, especially in light that i just read this story today:

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2019/03/24/ ... utah-town/

But I have no idea how society can tackle this issue effectively.

- Doc


Tackle the mental illness issue? I think we begin with open discussion and public education. Go from there.


While I was cleaning (still not done) I decided that I wanted to build on this more. Probably to the point where people grow weary of it, but that's not really important.

I think that one of the first steps is for us to talk about it. Talk with friends, talk with therapists, and tell our stories. The only reason that I don't provide details about my own experience directly on the board is because it's not just my story to tell but I can tell parts of it from my own perspective.

I'll speak in terms of "we" right now, but the statements represent individual circumstances as well. I want to show how things can progress to impacting people outside of ourselves as we tell our stories. I'm hoping to show the rippling effect that can move out beyond our own experience and go on to impact and educate others in positive ways.

Everyone in the family was immediately impacted and wounded. I reached outside of the family within minutes of the first phone calls we received and starting lining up support people right away. We talked about it to others in real time as events were unfolding, we talked about it during the aftermath to others, we talked to therapists, we talked to grief counselors, we talked to one therapist who specialized in treating PTSD patients, and we talked to each other. We talked to people who couldn't handle hearing it and those that could. I talked to myself and talked, swore and yelled at God. That's how I discharged my own feelings when they started to bottle up and overwhelm.

Finding a good therapist or team of therapists is kind of hit and miss. We eventually found the team (not all were professionals) for us and our circumstance and continued talking and telling our stories as events unfolded. Everyone contributed something to our experience and in many cases, we ended up contributing to theirs.

One family member found a therapist whose advice benefitted each of us. One family member found a therapist that prescribed an important and effective medication. I sometimes share both of those tools with folks on MDB or behind the scenes here. One family member joined a survivor therapy group at a local university. Telling their story gave others hope and gave psych students an opportunity to ask someone with a complicated story to serve as a focal point of their study. There were a whole group of psych students involved. Telling the story helped them earn degrees so that they could go on to help others with added insight and understanding from a very complicated in real life case.

I think that the inclination during and after an event such as suicide, our tendency is to hide it. Starting from the first phone call, we never chose to hide it from anyone.

Today when we tell our stories, we are often sharing facts and details in the hopes of encouraging others that their stories can also be told without judgement on our part. We use social media to support the stories of others. We openly comment via social media and in face to face conversations about the importance of seeking assistance. We openly talk about PTSD. We openly and strongly support the comments of others who have opened up to the effect that they are struggling. We lend our voices in support of suicide prevention and publicize and contribute money to suicide prevention fund raising events.

What I am trying to say here is that there needs to be a public on-going dialogue conducted with empathy and fact sharing that never goes away, that encourages others to tell their stories, and that there is hope for their circumstance and hope for a future. And that much of this begins with us as individuals willing to tell our own stories.

Our sharing has impacted friends, family members, therapists, psych students, nurses, doctors, colleagues, all sorts of people many of whom have gone on to address the needs of others )even in their own families) with a bit more insight. People learn from us and we learn from them. It's a circle, where the benefit also contributes to our own healing.

No one survives suicide unbroken. I think and believe that you can either try to let those broken places scar over or you can allow yourself to remain vulnerable enough to put yourself out there and that it encourages others to put out there what they might have been trying to avoid or hide and seek help.

I think that solutions begin with the individual who survives an experience, tells it to others, finds as much healing as they can, and then goes on to continue to tell their ongoing story because it is in the telling of the stories where we supply information that may resonate with another person and will help move them towards the help that they need. And, I think that our collective voices and votes will help to improve access to mental health resources that we need.

I'm an Idealist. I think the individual begins the making of widespread change.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
_Jersey Girl
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Re: Two Parkland Survivors have committed suicide.

Post by _Jersey Girl »

Maksutov wrote:
My family is about 75% NRA members. I even blew up over this and related stuff at a birthday party. I've had people block me on Facebook. I support the MFOL kids, not because I think they have all the answers, but because they need a voice. I'm tired of gun manufacturers and the NRA dominating the conversation. We're supposed to accept this crazy situation but freak out over alleged Sharia conspiracies. The Parkland kids are still dying. Alex Jones still hasn't had to face the music over his monstrous witch hunt against victims' families. So I keep talking about it.

That's why I started this thread. Capice?


Friend, I am going to put you in temporary go to hell/time out mode until we both simmer down a bit. I'll come back to this topic.

Don't take it personally. I include myself as part of the dynamic.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
_Ceeboo
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Re: Two Parkland Survivors have committed suicide.

Post by _Ceeboo »

Hey Mak

First, of course this is enormously sad and devastating news.

Please consider that there are many possible personal reasons that people may chose not to post in a thread like this. in my opinion, it's very dangerous to presume the motives of why people do - or do not - post on extremely deep and tragic topics such as these.

That's all I wanted to say.
_Lemmie
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Re: Two Parkland Survivors have committed suicide.

Post by _Lemmie »

Maksutov wrote:
Wait a minute. My eyeroll is for the folks who DON'T give a ____.

Understand, people? If I didn't care about this I would never bring it up. Jesus H. Christ. What kind of hair triggers are y'all on, anyway?

Instead of noting what you see has hair triggers, you might noted the ____ written Op that supplied the missing detail that you have just provided.

Hair triggers. Nice touch. :rolleyes:


My family is about 75% NRA members. I even blew up over this and related stuff at a birthday party. I've had people block me on Facebook. I support the MFOL kids, not because I think they have all the answers, but because they need a voice. I'm tired of gun manufacturers and the NRA dominating the conversation. We're supposed to accept this crazy situation but freak out over alleged Sharia conspiracies. The Parkland kids are still dying. Alex Jones still hasn't had to face the music over his monstrous witch hunt against victims' families. So I keep talking about it.

That's why I started this thread. Capice?

Understood here. You are in a rough position and boy, do I empathize. It's frustrating to have certain things you can't even bring up because there is a majority mindset that will shut you down. I have younger brothers who are physically more in the middle of stuff like this, and they regularly express their frustration to me. Luckily I am 2000 miles away!!

For what it's worth, I saw your OP as frustration at the situation, not at people here but in general, which I think is how you intended it.
_Maksutov
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Re: Two Parkland Survivors have committed suicide.

Post by _Maksutov »

Ceeboo wrote:Hey Mak

First, of course this is enormously sad and devastating news.

Please consider that there are many possible personal reasons that people may chose not to post in a thread like this. in my opinion, it's very dangerous to presume the motives of why people do - or do not - post on extremely deep and tragic topics such as these.

That's all I wanted to say.


Thanks, buddy. :wink:
"God" is the original deus ex machina. --Maksutov
_Jersey Girl
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Re: Two Parkland Survivors have committed suicide.

Post by _Jersey Girl »

I took us both out of go to hell/time out. Let me start here.

Maksutov wrote:The fact that I'd seen no other commentary on the subject here recently, for one.


I'll admit that I misread the intention behind the OP. I'll leave it at that.

That you see no other commentary on the subject here, isn't an indication that people give zero "F"s. I can think of a number of reasons why no one has commented on the Parkland suicides, none of which have to do with being out of "F"s about it.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
_Res Ipsa
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Re: Two Parkland Survivors have committed suicide.

Post by _Res Ipsa »

Ceeboo wrote:Hey Mak

First, of course this is enormously sad and devastating news.

Please consider that there are many possible personal reasons that people may chose not to post in a thread like this. in my opinion, it's very dangerous to presume the motives of why people do - or do not - post on extremely deep and tragic topics such as these.

That's all I wanted to say.


I started to compose an OP a couple of times. I couldn’t find the words.

I have a son in college. The students in his major are divided into small groups called “cohorts” to work on projects.

A couple months ago, a member of his cohort committed suicide. Since then, his cohort has been spending lots of time together outside of school.
​“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”

― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
_Lemmie
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Re: Two Parkland Survivors have committed suicide.

Post by _Lemmie »

Res Ipsa wrote:
Ceeboo wrote:Hey Mak

First, of course this is enormously sad and devastating news.

Please consider that there are many possible personal reasons that people may chose not to post in a thread like this. in my opinion, it's very dangerous to presume the motives of why people do - or do not - post on extremely deep and tragic topics such as these.

That's all I wanted to say.


I started to compose an OP a couple of times. I couldn’t find the words.

I have a son in college. The students in his major are divided into small groups called “cohorts” to work on projects.

A couple months ago, a member of his cohort committed suicide. Since then, his cohort has been spending lots of time together outside of school.

So you are going through this too. It's a terrible situation. I feel for your son.
_Jersey Girl
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Re: Two Parkland Survivors have committed suicide.

Post by _Jersey Girl »

Maksutov wrote:
My family is about 75% NRA members. I even blew up over this and related stuff at a birthday party. I've had people block me on Facebook. I support the MFOL kids, not because I think they have all the answers, but because they need a voice. I'm tired of gun manufacturers and the NRA dominating the conversation. We're supposed to accept this crazy situation but freak out over alleged Sharia conspiracies. The Parkland kids are still dying. Alex Jones still hasn't had to face the music over his monstrous witch hunt against victims' families. So I keep talking about it.

That's why I started this thread. Capice?


Where to even start here.

I agree that the MFOL students require a voice. I think that all survivors of gun violence, suicide, mentally ill persons and their people in general, require a voice.

I think I disagree slightly with your comment regarding gun manufacturers and the NRA dominating the conversation. I tend to think that the NRA at least, shapes and also funds the narrative and that narrative is strongly intertwined in our politics. A condition and relationship that sickens me.

I do have family members who are lifetime members of the NRA. They are responsible gun owners who secure and store their weapons appropriately and there are strict rules here about using the shooting range we have on the property. They are also Trump supporters and while I don't blow up at anyone, I do voice my opinions in a non-threatening way except for the couple of time I have let sarcasm get the best of me regarding Trump.

So...our family has had to deal with violent suicide preceded by a murder attempt that was thwarted by the quick thinking of the victim of said attempt. And in this and all cases, I keep coming back to the fact that the person in question was suffering from undiagnosed and untreated mental illness. Had the gun not been present (and loaded), had the victim not fought back, I would be writing about a murder by strangulationright now instead of suicide survivorship.

Because neither outcome (suicide or murder) are desirable outcomes, I keep going back to the mental illness piece.

It's understandable that people would like to see the NRA put out of business. I share that interest. I don't know how to put them out of business. My vote? My money contributed to various groups? The voicing of my opinions in real life and elsewhere? I still go back and will always go back to mental illness as a main cause of these sudden deaths and the aftermath that follows.

I suppose that had the Parkland shooter been unsuccessful in carrying out his plan that day, he might have easily gone home and killed himself using a gun or a rope, a belt, or what have you. Neither option presents a more favorable outcome in my eyes.

There were initially 17 deaths and 17 non-fatal injuries in the Parkland shooting. The situation was such that the victim base would have grown exponentially to include school staff, student and adult survivors, their families, first responders and hospital staff. Every single person attached to the shooting directly and indirectly is a candidate for mental illness and death by suicide. And as they begin to develop mental illnesses and particularly, as they begin to suicide...they create more and other victims.

I want the mental health piece dealt with. So tell me, how do we deal with the NRA?

(If this post and others like it, sounds disjointed and detached, it's because I'm blocking thoughts and emotions while writing them.)
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
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