Bach's THREE Mueller Report threads, combined

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_Maksutov
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Re: What’s Worse Than Ignorance? Combining it w Naïveté

Post by _Maksutov »

Dr. Shades wrote:OOPS! I mistakenly used the word "post" when I should've said "thread."

Ceeboo wrote:He's not allowed to post about the Mueller report? :confused:

(Not questioning your authority, just curious)

Oh, he can post about it all day, to his heart's content. Let's just have him make all such posts in one of the three threads (two of which were started by he himself) that have already been created on this topic.


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_Markk
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Re: MAJOR BUMMER FOR EAllusion AND KG:

Post by _Markk »

honorentheos wrote:
Markk wrote:I am watching a Golf Tournament, and NBC broke in and read it word for word...what a joke. I mean this from either side of the fence one might sit.

We paid all the monies it cost, and it wasted all the time of idiot leaders (both sides) taking turns peeing on the fire hydrant...and Mullers basically said..."you guys figure it out."

I was working in my shop when they read it, but unless I missed something Bach is correct it is a nothing burger, from both sides of the fence.

I haven't felt the Mueller investigation was going to prove anything one way or the other and had relatively low expections, and going into today was largely more interested in what was happening every day in front of our eyes that didn't need a Special Council report to give us the information we needed to see just how dangerously un-democratic the Trump admin has turned out to be (small 'd' for the partisans who get riled up hearing the d-word without realizing why that is also f-d up). I've been much more concerned with his bankrupting the country like a predatory investor might overload a company with debt, steal the immediate profits and then bail out to let others suffer the consequences myself. But you know what? The summary that dropped today has had the opposite effect on my views than it apparently had on you or Bach. The Mueller report apparently sent the AG enough information to say that it wasn't a slam dunk case where the President could be exonerated from having obstructed justice...and the AG decided the reason the justice department won't proceed with charges is not because the evidence suggests they shouldn't. Rather, they say whatever Trump did, since the investigation didn't tie Trump to criminal conspiracy with a hostile foreign nation - one that the report apparently acknowledges was successful in interfering in the 2016 election and made multiple attempts to coordinate with the Trump campaign - his otherwise questionable activities can't have obstructed justice.

That's straight up ____ crazy if you understand everything that was said there.

Blah blah blah
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_honorentheos
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Re: MAJOR BUMMER FOR EA AND KG:

Post by _honorentheos »

Blah blah blah? You just yadda-yadda-yadda away things that aren't spelled out in neon?
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_Ceeboo
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Re: What’s Worse Than Ignorance? Combining it w Naïveté

Post by _Ceeboo »

Dr. Shades wrote:OOPS! I mistakenly used the word "post" when I should've said "thread."

Ceeboo wrote:He's not allowed to post about the Mueller report? :confused:

(Not questioning your authority, just curious)

Oh, he can post about it all day, to his heart's content. Let's just have him make all such posts in one of the three threads (two of which were started by he himself) that have already been created on this topic.


Ohh, I see.

Thanks!
_MeDotOrg
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Re: MAJOR BUMMER FOR EA AND KG:

Post by _MeDotOrg »

First of all: Bach, I feel you are entitled to your moment. The outcome of the Mueller Report was as sure as the outcome of the 2016 election, and a lot of the pundits were equally as wrong.

But I would point out of a couple of things: The Special Counsel's Office was tasked with investigating Russian interference in the 2016 election, and whether or not the President or members of his campaign conspired with or cooperated with the Russians. They found a lot of interference by the Russians. Many people have been indicted. We learned valuable information on how the Russians used Facebook and other social media platforms to influence the election. If you genuinely care about trying to minimize foreign interference in our elections, on that single investigation and finding the Mueller report was worth the cost, right now at 25 million, or about 20 Stormy Daniels.

If the President wants to call it exoneration when his National Security Advisor, campaign manager, deputy campaign manager and personal lawyer are all going to jail, congratulations.

But we are told that the President is exonerated and did not collude. What we have seen is Barr's summary, which I do urge everyone to read. Here's a sample:

The Special Counsel's investigation determined that there were two main Russian efforts to influence the 2016 election. The first involved attempts by a Russian organization, the Internet Research Agency (IRA), to conduct disinformation and social media operations in the United States designed to sow social discord, eventually with the aim of interfering with the election. As noted above, the Special Counsel did not find that any U.S. person or Trump campaign official or associate conspired or knowingly coordinated with the IRA in its efforts, although the Special Counsel brought criminal charges against a number of Russian nationals and entities in connection with these activities.

Now it could very well be that I am reading a little daylight here where there is none, but I will be interested to see what exactly defines knowingly coordinating.

Read with respect to obstruction of justice:

Over the course of the investigation, the Special Counsel's office engaged in discussions with certain Department officials regarding many of the legal and factual matters at issue in the Special Counsel's obstruction investigation. After reviewing the Special Counsel's final report on these issues; consulting with Department officials, including the Office of Legal Counsel; and applying the principles of federal prosecution that guide our charging decisions, Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein and I have concluded that the evidence developed during the Special Counsel's investigation is not sufficient to establish that the President committed an obstruction-of-justice offense. Our determination was made without regard to, and is not based on, the constitutional considerations that surround the indictment and criminal prosecution of a sitting president.

In making this determination, we noted that the Special Counsel recognized that "the evidence does not establish that the President was involved in an underlying crime related to Russian election interference," and that, while not determinative, the absence of such evidence bears upon the President's intent with respect to obstruction. Generally speaking, to obtain and sustain an obstruction conviction, the government would need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that a person, acting with corrupt intent, engaged in obstructive conduct with a sufficient nexus to a pending or contemplated proceeding. In cataloguing the President's actions, many of which took place in public view, the report identifies no actions that, in our judgment, constitute obstructive conduct, had a nexus to a pending or contemplated proceeding, and were done with corrupt intent,

There is a lot of room in there. Basically they are saying that in evaluating obstruction, the fact that the President said things in public that when combined with the SCO's finding that no collusion occured, led to the conclusion that obstruction of justice did not occur because there was no crime for justice to obstruct. Again, I would like see some of the facts that contributed to that argument.

But again, the headlines today are very good for Donald Trump. However, neither supporters or detractors of the President to start singing 'Happy Days are here again'. Barr's summary is about half of a 4 page letter. It is based upon:

more than 2,800 subpoenas, executed nearly 500 search warrants, obtained more than 230 orders for communication records, issued almost 50 orders authorizing use of pen registers, made 13 requests to foreign governments for evidence, and interviewed approximately 500 witnesses.

So I would like to see a little more than a 4 page cover letter before coming to a final judgement. But again, especially with respect to the President's personal knowledge of collusion, a great day for the President.

Republicans will now be saying 'witch hunt' in House hearings and SDNY investigations that are not as restricted in scope as the Special Counsel's Office. Things are just going to get uglier.
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_Kevin Graham
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Re: MAJOR BUMMER FOR EAllusion AND KG:

Post by _Kevin Graham »

Did bach miss the part where it concludes the report "does not exonerate" Trump?

You know you're a special kind of villain when your great moment is seeing your boy get away with criminal activity.

Meanwhile, SDNY ....
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Re: MAJOR BUMMER FOR EAllusion AND KG:

Post by _Bach »

Kevin Graham wrote:Did bach miss the part where it concludes the report "does not exonerate" Trump?

You know you're a special kind of villain when your great moment is seeing your boy get away with criminal activity.

Meanwhile, SDNY ....

Did KG miss the part where Barr AND ROSENSTEIN further clarified no evidence of obstruction? I get the feeling this board has an annual “snipe hunting trip” somewhere, perhaps w Rachel Maddow as guide???

This is the problem with ignorance and naïveté. Kevin fell into the same emotional trap of most here: he let the corrupt media do his thinking and prey upon his naïveté and ignorance. Like others: “he bought it, swallowed it, - hook, line and non-thinker”. Trump got away with nothing. There was never anything to get away from the beginning. Liberal media has the ability to prey upon those that let their brain be sublet.

Sorry Kevin. I know it’s tough when one is duped into a fraudulent investment. Pretty sure EAllusion is feeling the same. I just hope your sub-tenants are still paying!!!! LMAO! You two are the poster children for “GULLIBILITY”!
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Re: What’s Worse Than Ignorance? Combining it w Naïveté

Post by _Bach »

Still waiting Shades! Your great when you don’t have to be held accountable. Most cowards are!
_Gunnar
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Re: Mueller Report Should be Rejected by all Americans

Post by _Gunnar »

Benghazi: 950 days, 0 indictments, 0 charges

Mueller: 674 days, 37 indictments, With Multiple Investigations spawned and still ongoing

Yes! It is very telling how subby manages to simply ignore that one highly inconvenient little fact (and numerous other equally incontrovertible and inconvenient little facts concerning Trump's perfidy and dishonesty). One can only conclude that subby himself is pathologically dishonest and/or incurably delusional--very much like flat-earthers, climate change deniers and holocaust deniers.
No precept or claim is more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.

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_Kevin Graham
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Re: Mueller Report Should be Rejected by all Americans

Post by _Kevin Graham »

subgenius wrote:
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
It'll most likely be in the black when they secure Manafort's ill-gotten lucre. Also, let's not forget how much Bach's Boys spent on Bill Clinton because he got a blowjob in the West Wing.

- Doc

But no collusion, and Clinton did actually get a bj...thus maintaining your high bar for the "integrity of the West Wing".
But it will be fun to see you guys spin the difference of "guilt" between Hillary Clinton and Trump on any points of "not enough evidence" (see also no indictment from Starrr for Hillary Clinton on perjury).

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1. There was collusion. That has already been demonstrated. Don Jr's email proved there was intent to get dirt on Hillary which was the purpose of his meeting with the Russians.
2. Collusion itself isn't a crime. Conspiracy to commit an unlawful act is the potential crime and the report does not exonerate Trump or his campaign it just said the investigation failed to accumulate enough evidence that was worth mounting a case. This probably has more to do with the lack of a smoking gun like an audio tape or video. The emails and meetings the Trump campaign can just argue for eternity that it was about abortion, or they were just joking. Proving intent to knowingly commit a crime is extremely difficult.
3. Mueller is a Republican, so your meme is dumb.
4. Hillary was not indicted on anything and yet many years later you're still chanting "lock her up." Yeah, tell us about hypocrisy again...
5. Trump is likely to be charged by the SDNY for crimes FOX News judge Napolitano has already said he's guilty of. The only reason he isn't charged now is because he has immunity as a sitting President. His tax fraud schemes have no statute of limitations in the civil arena.
6. Democrats could impeach him right now on a number of impeachable offenses but they're gambling that it would be better to wait it out and just let the American people vote him out of office.
7. Your glorious moment of Trump's administration is finding out he dodged a bullet when anyone with a brain already knows he's guilty. You're basically the OJ Simpson fan club, but for a guy you like because he's white and rich with an R after his name.
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