honorentheos wrote:What Schmo said is partisan. He is arguing facts and justice don't matter. Trump is bad, what Biden did is in the past.
I sometimes find it difficult to take to at face value, honor.
Your paraphrase of what you've interpreted as my comments could not be less accurate. I suppose, therefore, I'm fine with you thinking what I'm saying is partisan. Accuracy is not your thing.
He is arguing facts and justice don't matter...
Yeah, if there's one thing I keep harping on here, it's that facts don't matter.
And Screw you too.
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.
Pardon the interruption. However, I just wanted to interject how I think this whole thing has been a waste of time and a lost opportunity. Impeacement will ultimately benefit Trump because the case hasn't been sufficiently made to convince the maximum amount of people. Trump will now make a victory lap around the country and use victimhood to the maximum thanks to a botched process.
Looking at this strategically, a slow impeacement process throughout the election cycle would have sunk Trump's reelection chances if the case could be slowly made, with new revelations coming out periodically, showing how corrupt Trump is. It could have been widened beyond Ukraine. Trump would have screamed partisan witch hunt, but, a good counter is that criminal trials should proceed no matter the time of day or season. Perhaps Biden and Burisma would have been an issue, but Trump would have been taken down, if the democrats had the goods. Why the democrats didn't do this is baffling. Now, however, Trump gets an election issue for his religious maga maggots.
"Religion is about providing human community in the guise of solving problems that don’t exist or failing to solve problems that do and seeking to reconcile these contradictions and conceal the failures in bogus explanations otherwise known as theology." - Kishkumen
honorentheos wrote:That is ignoring if Biden actually did work the withholding of aid to benefit his son, it wouldn't be clear there was wrong doing on Trump's part.
What? Yes it would.
They’ve managed to shift your Overton window pretty far.
This is getting bizarre. The issue isn't that what Trump did is independent from what Biden did. It's that what Biden did is not what Republicans claim it to be. Trump doesn't have a good basis for seeking an investigation of Biden by Ukraine because the facts are in the open, and obvious it wasn't done to benefit the president of Burisma if one puts in even the slightest amount of effort to understand what actually happened. It's clearly a case of requesting an investigation of an individual rather than a particular incident, and it's pretty clear it was for political reasons
To argue that what Biden did doesn't matter absolutely reframes the impeachment inquiry as it turns the basis for Trump's call for an investigation into something that isn't obviously a political favor. It reframes everything. That's not the Overton window shifting. It's the facts of the case shifting and that should shift the conclusions associated with it.
Last edited by Guest on Fri Dec 13, 2019 5:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth? ~ Eiji Yoshikawa
Exiled wrote:Pardon the interruption. However, I just wanted to interject how I think this whole thing has been a waste of time and a lost opportunity. Impeacement will ultimately benefit Trump because the case hasn't been sufficiently made to convince the maximum amount of people. Trump will now make a victory lap around the country and use victimhood to the maximum thanks to a botched process.
Looking at this strategically, a slow impeacement process throughout the election cycle would have sunk Trump's reelection chances if the case could be slowly made, with new revelations coming out periodically, showing how corrupt Trump is. It could have been widened beyond Ukraine. Trump would have screamed partisan witch hunt, but, a good counter is that criminal trials should proceed no matter the time of day or season. Perhaps Biden and Burisma would have been an issue, but Trump would have been taken down, if the democrats had the goods. Why the democrats didn't do this is baffling. Now, however, Trump gets an election issue for his religious maga maggots.
It's hard to imagine the public opinion polls moving regardless of what new information is uncovered. It's like trying to convince Mormon apologists. In order to get enough Republicans in the Senate to suddenly support removal, it would take a huge shift in public opinion polls in the red and purple states, and that won't happen. So plan B is to damage Trump politically for the 2020 election, but the longer the process plays out, the more Trump supporters will see him as a martyr, and that opinion could start spreading to swing state voters. I'm not saying the democrat strategy is necessarily good. I just don't think there is a good strategy in our current political climate.
"We have taken up arms in defense of our liberty, our property, our wives, and our children; we are determined to preserve them, or die." - Captain Moroni - 'Address to the Inhabitants of Canada' 1775
honorentheos wrote:To argue that what Biden did doesn't matter absolutely reframes the impeachment inquiry as it turns the basis for Trump's call for an investigation into something that isn't obviously a political favor. It reframes everything. That's not the Overton window shifting. It's the facts of the case shifting and that should shift the conclusions associated with it.
Unbelievable.
So what you're saying is that (in this counterfactual where Biden is guilty), it would be totally fine for Trump to only release US aid when that foreign entity investigated the one instance of corruption that happens to focus on his political rival, so long as that political rival happens to be guilty. In that scenario, it's totally fine to coerce a foreign country to conduct a domestic investigation rather than properly tasking his own US intelligence agencies. If Biden's guilty, all of this is just peachy.
Is that it?
You're right; this is getting bizarre.
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.
DarkHelmet wrote:I'm not saying the democrat strategy is necessarily good. I just don't think there is a good strategy in our current political climate.
Thoroughly agree. It's like trying to come up with a good chess strategy while your opponents are playing tiddlywinks.
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.