Impeachment hearings

[_honorentheos]

I haven't but it looks like it's on Netflix so I'll check it out.

[_Markk]

Markk, Zlochevsky was and is known to be corrupt. That's not news. The entire point of the timeline was to show that the investigations into him were being held up by the Office of the Prosecutor General and interfered with by corrupt Ukrainians kleptocrats whose history and ties go back into the early 2000s. Shokin, Yanukovych, Poroshenko, Lutsenko - they all were tied up in the same corruption issues as Zlochevsky.

You aren't paying attention to what is going on by getting distracted because Hunter Biden was hired onto the board of Burisma. Yeah, that was dumb, and yeah that looks bad. Hell, it could even be bad in that it could be part of why Biden advocated for the US supporting Ukrainain gas expansion in addition to fostering their independence from Russia. Or it could be that Biden knew this was a needed move and it affected the behavior of his son, etc. But Biden conveying the message that Shokin needed to go is CLEAR as it gets an act that was against protecting Zlochevsky and works against that narrative.

Well, I disagree with your assertion, in that it somehow takes away the possibility that Joe and Hunter aren't dirty. You wrote..." Yeah, that was dumb, and yeah that looks bad. Hell, it could even be bad in that it could be part of why Biden advocated for the US supporting Ukrainain gas expansion in addition to fostering their independence from Russia."

Yes, Zlochevsky was and is dirty, he was working for the Russians, and was and is a mobster on the run. But... the Vice President of the United states was meeting with his sons associate partner in the White House a day prior to Zlochevsky wiring over 100k into the Bidden, Archer, Kerry LLC. And then 6 days later Archer was hired by Zlochevsky, and then 3 weeks later Zlochevsky hired Hunter Biden. All this with Joe being in charge of who would get Billions in aid from the USA.

It is a understatement it looks bad...it is very likely it is bad...there is certainly enough "looking bad" to warrant an investigation...are you going to deny that?

So what if Shokin, Yanukovych, Poroshenko, Lutsenko were corrupt, again, so what! That does not in anyway mean that the Bidens were not corrupt either. I added to your timeline to show that.

Also Shokin claimed US Ambassador to the Ukraine, Pyatt, told him to stand down on investigating the Biden's...which just adds more "look real bad" to this mess. Congress has Rudy's notes that allege this. Is Rudy making this up, maybe, is the truth maybe...?

Some like you claim he was fired because he was dirty, others, including Shokin alleged that Pyatt told him to back off of the investigation of Burisma, again... the company owned by a mobster, with ties to Russia...who employed the vice Presidents son, who was in charge of handing out Billions to the Ukraine. It is just not as clear as you are trying to make it...it is as clear as mud if anything.

There is so much more here, but it is clear, at least to me and many others, that there is more than enough here to warrant an investigation, I'll go as far to say, in my opinion, it is irresponsible not to investigate this.

Given that you concede this looks bad, how do you know this wasn't anything more than just a innocent mistake that just looks bad?

We haven't even touched on Iraq and China yet in regards to taxpayer money and the Biden family. If the Ukraine looks bad, China and Iraq looks even worse. Is this a clear pattern, or is this just a bunch of innocent blunders and innocent incompetence?

Honor, if you are serious, all this needs to be looked at.

[_Markk]

April 21, Vice President Biden landed in Kyiv for meetings with Ukrainian officials, bringing with him terms for a United States Agency for International Development (USAID) program to assist the Ukrainian natural gas industry.

Here's an article from that date - https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukra ... HK20140421

U.S. Vice President Joe Biden will announce a package of technical assistance focused on energy and economic aid distribution during a two-day visit to Ukraine that began on Monday, a senior administration official said.

Biden is the highest ranking U.S. official to visit the country since the crisis with Russia erupted months ago.

His trip is largely symbolic. But during talks with Ukrainian leaders on Tuesday he will announce U.S. assistance, primarily of technical know-how to boost energy efficiency as well as production in Ukrainian natural gas fields and extraction of “unconventional” gas resources, a senior administration official told reporters traveling on board the vice president’s plane.

A U.S. team was also in Ukraine to help deal with the issue of securing gas flows from EU countries such as Slovakia and Hungary in the event that Russia cuts off Ukraine’s supply, the official said.

Kiev gets about half of its gas from Moscow and a large proportion of Europe’s gas is pumped from Russia via Ukraine. The United States is pushing Ukraine and the European Union to diversify their energy supplies and become less reliant on Russia.

Biden arrived in Kiev as an agreement reached last week to avert wider conflict in Ukraine began to falter.

Keep in mind that the major issue at this time was the Obama administration's stance of supporting Ukraine in the face of Russian aggression just a month before when they annexed Crimea and began sponsoring violent uprising in Eastern Ukraine including Russian troops going on "vacation" to Ukraine to fight during their leave. Russia was the major source of Ukrainian as well as European oil at the time which was obviously of strategic as well as tactical concern.

See this article for more information on that so you can contextualize why all of NATO might be interested in helping the Ukraine exploit its own oil reserves: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/does-russi ... sanctions/

Dated March 4, 2014: A large portion of Russian oil bound for Western Europe passes through Ukraine. And twice in the past decade, in 2006 and 2009, Russia has turned off natural gas shipments to Ukraine during disputes over gas prices. That in turn created shortages in some EU member nations.

In response, the EU has attempted to come up with alternatives to its current dependency on Russian oil and gas. The so-called "Nabucco" pipeline, for example, was a plan to bypass Russia by having a pipeline running from the Caspian Sea to Europe, from Turkey to Austria via Bulgaria, Romania and Hungary. But that project was shelved last June, when gas producers in Azerbaijan opted for a different plan.

Okay...but the point is that a week before this Archer meet with Joe at the White House, and a day before that Hunter's and Devon's LLC recieved over a 100k from Burisma, and then within a few weeks or so, both Hunter and Devon were hired by the mobster owner with ties to Russia to work for him, paying them tens of thousands of dollars a month, with no experience in everything you just pasted.

You pasted this.."His trip is largely symbolic. But during talks with Ukrainian leaders on Tuesday he will announce U.S. assistance, primarily of technical know-how to boost energy efficiency as well as production in Ukrainian natural gas fields and extraction of “unconventional” gas resources, a senior administration official told reporters traveling on board the vice president’s plane."

US assistance to boost production of natural gas...which also means US dollars, and at the time Burisma was the second largest natural gas company in the Ukraine (it is #1 now).

Honor....it is about timing, and as you wrote "looks bad," and is part of a pattern that unfolds where ever Joe with the taxpayer check book.

[_honorentheos]

Well, I disagree with your assertion, in that it somehow takes away the possibility that Joe and Hunter aren't dirty.

Ok.

[_honorentheos]

Yes, Archer and Hunter were hired by Burisma. They have connections so a corrupt business owner/kleptocrat put them on its board so let's focus on innuendo and assumptions because if you don't you're taking away the cupcakes ...

[_Markk]

Yes, Archer and Hunter were hired by Burisma. They have connections so a corrupt business owner put them on its board so let's run with innuendo and assumptions because if you don't you're taking away the cupcakes ...

LOL Are you kidding me?

Yes a corrupt mobster, who was appointed by a Russian backed Ukrainian goverment, and appointed to a minister position in the Ukrainian government under Yanuovich, and under him, Burisma gained nine production licenses and Burisma, his own company, had it gas production go up 700%.

Are you kidding me? LOL... connections to what...the person who is responsible to give billions in assistance to the Ukraine...unbelievable.

Also...

By then, almost two years had passed since the revolution and many Ukrainians had become disillusioned. The credibility of the United States was not helped by the news that, since May 2014, Vice President Joe Biden’s son Hunter had been on the board of directors of Burisma, Zlochevsky’s company. The White House insisted the position was a private matter for Hunter Biden, and unrelated to his father’s job, but that is not how anyone I spoke to in Ukraine interpreted it. Hunter Biden is an undistinguished corporate lawyer with no previous Ukraine experience. Why then would a Ukrainian tycoon hire him?

Hunter Biden failed to reply to questions I sent him, but he told the Wall Street Journal in December 2015 that he had joined Burisma “to strengthen corporate governance and transparency at a company working to advance energy security.” That was not an explanation that many people found reassuring. The Washington Post was particularly damning: “The appointment of the vice president’s son to a Ukrainian oil board looks nepotistic at best, nefarious at worst,” it wrote, shortly after Hunter Biden’s appointment. “You have to wonder how big the salary has to be to put US soft power at risk like this. Pretty big, we’d imagine.”

Bullough, Oliver. Moneyland (pp. 187-188). St. Martin's Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

Again...are you saying this type of pattern should be ignored? Bullough writes that Hunter is a undistinguished lawyer.

Joe's other son was involved in a accident that killed a man and was ordered to pay the mans daughters (200k or so) and he has been running away from it for a few years of so.

His brother Frank, got a huge goverment contract, loans and/or money ( can't remember which, but I can look if you want a cf) in Iraq, and I think it was Costa Rica, for construction/development in which he had to experience.

There was a Hawaii thing guaranteed low interest loan thing that went bad for a Hunter LLC...(I can look that up also for complete accuracy, it has been a while since I read it)

Do you really hate Trump that much to ignore all this? And now start with the ad homs? You are better than that Honor.

In good faith I spent 15 bucks on a book you recommended, just because you recommended it...LOL ...O'well, so far the guys seems pretty reasonable, I read the chapter on Burisma and the Bidens. I have a few other books I am reading, and Kerry's paper on Tree's, but I will get through it hopefully sooner than later.

[_honorentheos]

Simple question: on a scale of 1 to 5, in your opinion how likely is it that Bidens insistence the Ukraine remove Shokin from office helped Hunter Biden? 1 being it didn't help but instead hurt him, 3 being it didn't help nor hurt Hunter or his client, and 5 being it was so beneficial it has to be part of a conspiracy?

[_Markk]

I honestly have no idea...that is why we need a investigation. On a scale of looking bad, given all the evidence a 5 in looking very bad. There is just too much dirt out there with the Biden's to sweep it under the rug.

Your question has too many variables and unknowns. If he was guilty, it obviously helped him, if he was not guilty and just stupid, greedy, and he and his father didn't think it out, or care...it hurt both of them by appearance alone.

Plus we have two different things here, the first is... were they dirty? The second a potential cover up by firing the guy. They could be guilty and maybe even if the guy didn't get fired, it wouldn't mean automatic conviction.

Side note...How many independents will not vote for Joe based on this alone. Not doing to well in the first two, it appears SC will be the make or break primary for him. Honestly, 6 months ago he was my choice if Trump were to lose, now he is not even in the picture after researching he and his family, and see him fall apart in the field. Gabby would be my next choice but she done...so it is any one but Warren or Bernie for me at this point, just like it is any one but Trump for many on the left. Pretty sad.

Joe seems hurt by the whole thing , and Hunter is laying low, so in that sense, they are losers. Trump was a loser for a while, and who knows if it comes out again, and us as taxpayers are losers for sure...what a waste of time. Just vote the guy out, instead of going through all this BS. I know you hate him, but enough is enough...put your energy into finding someone with a personality that can beat him.

[_MissTish]

Again...are you saying this type of pattern should be ignored? Bullough writes that Hunter is a undistinguished lawyer.

Joe's other son was involved in a accident that killed a man and was ordered to pay the mans daughters (200k or so) and he has been running away from it for a few years of so.

By `Joe's other son' are you're referring to Beau Biden? You're saying Beau Biden is running away from paying the children of a man he killed in an accident ?

This statement is very confusing.

[_moksha]

I honestly have no idea...that is why we need a investigation.

What was your position on a recent investigation of Trump that had a mountain of evidence?