EXPOSED: The WHO's Bungled Covid Response

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

I suspect Ajax’s continuing obsession with paper or reusable straws is due in part to Breitbart articles like:

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020 ... as-deadly/

“On the way back to the office, Virtuous American digs into his man-purse and removes a bacteria-infested reusable straw (he or may not have run a little cold water through a couple of days ago) and pops it into his iced coffee while gingerly walking through a poopy homeless encampment because Virtue City’s building regulations protect Gaia.

After work, Virtuous American stops at the grocery store and fills his environmentally friendly bacteria-infested reusable cloth grocery bags (that he might have washed two weeks ago) with fresh fruits and vegetables.

Then the pandemic hits… And thanks to a dense population, crowded mass transit, recycled air, poopy streets, bacteria-infested (but environmentally friendly) cups, straws, bottles, and bags, it spreads like wildfire though Virtue City.”

*rubbing temples*

- Doc

[_Chap]

I suspect Ajax’s continuing obsession with paper or reusable straws is due in part to Breitbart articles like:

...

After work, Virtuous American stops at the grocery store and fills his environmentally friendly bacteria-infested reusable cloth grocery bags (that he might have washed two weeks ago) with fresh fruits and vegetables.

...

I have a reusable shopping bag. When I get home from fruit and vegetable shopping, I wash anything that might be eaten with its skin on in water with a little detergent, and rinse it. I started doing that many years ago when I visited an East Asian country and read the instructions on a bottle of washing-up liquid which indicated that this was normal procedure in the country in question. It seemed a good idea (removes pesticides as well as dirt), so I've done it ever since. I also wash lettuce in plain water when I make a salad.

Breitbart readers just rely on the mysterious cleansing properties of a disposable plastic bag?

Weird people. But then we knew that already, didn't we?

[_EAllusion]

[quote]Thanks for clarifying. Could you link to the phylogenetic evidence you are relying on? The first identified patient I’ve seen referred to was written up in the Lancet, and what in early December. What phylogenetic information could extend the outbreak back in time from the first known patient?[/quote]

The first paper I read was this cite:

http://virological.org/t/phylodynamic-a ... r-2020/356

from this paper:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9

Then there's this:

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/ful ... /jmv.25731

Then later this:

https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2020 ... 2004999117

The last one has updated information that I'm now fritzing on finding with more data that places the origins in the range of late Sept to the beginning of Dec. with the possibility of a founder effect to Wuhan.

With the other information out there, it seemed reasonable to cohere around late Novemberish. It's possible that both independently sourced stories from reputable publications about what US intelligence was doing (with overly specific non-denials coming from the US government) are false. It's possible the patient whose symptoms developed some around the end of Nov. and can only be traced to the infection area on Nov. 17th has an alternative explanation. It's possible that the origin of the disease is on the more recent end of the probability curve. I don't want to preclude any of that, but it seemed reasonable to put a timeline together of it developing in late November as a likely story. I wouldn't oppose revising that comment so it expresses even more uncertainty as the underlying point retains.

[_canpakes]

I suspect Ajax’s continuing obsession with paper or reusable straws is due in part to Breitbart articles like:

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020 ... as-deadly/

“On the way back to the office, Virtuous American digs into his man-purse and removes a bacteria-infested reusable straw (he or may not have run a little cold water through a couple of days ago) and pops it into his iced coffee while gingerly walking through a poopy homeless encampment because Virtue City’s building regulations protect Gaia.

First we had subs whining about how essential business hours guidelines were akin to the genocide and mass murder of Nazi Germany, and now ajax is bitching about the possibility that some eating establishment might deny him his privileged right to a free plastic straw.

Folks can certainly see who the real snowflakes are in present day America.

[_EAllusion]

Either Ajax has a hilariously strong aversion to drinking without straws or using paper or metal straws or he's just playing it up because of Brietbart type propaganda. I lean towards the latter, but want to believe it is the former.

What happened when you tried to drink a milk shake with the metal straw Ajax? I'm down for this tale of woe.

That Brietbart article is wild. The best part is when it attacks cities and mass transit as the reason for the severe disease outbreak, as if Seoul, South Korea doesn't exist. Just pure culture war grievance against anything the author vaguely associates with the libs. I missed the papers warning of reusable grocery bags as the vector of coronavirus.

[_Gadianton]

The larger scale initiatives are never going to happen. ...It's only a small fraction of the world that is ever going to be stupid enough to use paper straws. Thankfully the effects of plastic straws is trivial enough that it won't matter much.

I didn't mean a small plastic straw measure will one day result in a big one, I mean smaller measures, whatever they are, will certainly have to come first and spread; the entire world isn't going to get together and make meaningful environmental rules that start making a difference on day 1.

In other words, there are two possibilities: either we save the environment or doom it. I give our ability to save it pretty low odds, however, assuming it's possible to save it, whatever initial steps are taken in the way of trash cleanup won't initially make a big global difference. And so an argument against a green measure has to have more to it than merely observing the measure on its own won't make a difference to the ocean.

[_Jersey Girl]

I have about 20 plastic straws left. Only one family member uses them for fun and it's not me. I don't plan to buy more or switch to metal. Don't need them. I do have some pretty striped paper straws that we use for the same person...for fun.

I don't know why we're talking about straws now. I thought I should share. ;-)

[_Res Ipsa]

Thanks for clarifying. Could you link to the phylogenetic evidence you are relying on? The first identified patient I’ve seen referred to was written up in the Lancet, and what in early December. What phylogenetic information could extend the outbreak back in time from the first known patient?

The first paper I read was this cite:

http://virological.org/t/phylodynamic-a ... r-2020/356

from this paper:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9

Then there's this:

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/ful ... /jmv.25731

Then later this:

https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2020 ... 2004999117

The last one has updated information that I'm now fritzing on finding with more data that places the origins in the range of late Sept to the beginning of Dec. with the possibility of a founder effect to Wuhan.

With the other information out there, it seemed reasonable to cohere around late Novemberish. It's possible that both independently sourced stories from reputable publications about what US intelligence was doing (with overly specific non-denials coming from the US government) are false. It's possible the patient whose symptoms developed some around the end of Nov. and can only be traced to the infection area on Nov. 17th has an alternative explanation. It's possible that the origin of the disease is on the more recent end of the probability curve. I don't want to preclude any of that, but it seemed reasonable to put a timeline together of it developing in late November as a likely story. I wouldn't oppose revising that comment so it expresses even more uncertainty as the underlying point retains.

None of these papers support the notion that there was anything unusual for anyone to notice, let alone send an intelligence report on in November. At most, you’ve got a few infected people in November that haven’t developed symptoms yet. What kind of surveillance even notices that? Do we have x-ray vision that can spot viruses now? What observable evidence was there in November that there was even a disease outbreak, let alone one with pandemic potential? Cuz what you posted isn’t it.

[_EAllusion]

You're asking how I got a late November date. These papers support that date range for the development of the novel virus. Mid to late Novemberish is the median point in the estimates based on phylogenetic mapping. The support that there was an apparent novel disease outbreak in the region that intelligence discovered via intercepted communication and shared is just independent reporting from a few blue chip sources. It seems that you find that implausible because you expect to see more medical records from that time period showing up, but I'm not sure why their absence is precluded given the suppressive efforts the Chinese government is known to have engaged in at the outset of the outbreak.

[_Icarus]

What happened when you tried to drink a milk shake with the metal straw Ajax? I'm down for this tale of woe.