"Bitter Fruit"

[_Shulem]

Eh, I think it's silly to blow this one out of proportion.

I disagree. The Mormon cult devalues children when they aren't being raised by their brand. They will automatically say that because the child is brought up in a sinful environment that the chances are the child will follow into likeminded sinful traps because of the parents and thus in the end be deprived of exaltation and salvation in the celestial kingdom. In other words, if you don't be just like us and do our ways and believe what we say then you are damned. You can't be exalted and neither can your bitter children in which you raised.

Up goes my middle finger to the Mormons. To you, NelSatan -- my middle finger you SOB!

You too, DCP. You're an ass. You're not going to get your exaltation you dream of. It's a fantasy just like the king's name in Facsimile No. 3 -- you SOB!

[_Shulem]

Polygamy, bigamy, intimidating young girls, and wooing 14 years olds are but some of the bitter fruits that grew out of the immorality sanctioned by Smith and his Mormonism

Joseph Smith was immoral. He was an adulterer. He was a liar. He was a cheater.

Poor Emma.

[_Gadianton]

Dr. M: "Right, when the very statement is crafted to engender fear on the part of believers... also where exactly is the data that supports his proposition?"

These are the kinds of insights that keep this place going. Not the kind of thing anyone at SeN could possibly comprehend. "Does not compute". lol.

[_I have a question]

The transcript is up.

A society, for example, in which individual consent is the only constraint on sexual activity is a society in decay. Adultery, promiscuity, out-of-wedlock births,15 and elective abortions are but some of the bitter fruits that grow out of the ongoing sexual revolution.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... n?lang=eng

You will notice an added footnote has been referenced following the phrase "out-of-wedlock births". The footnote reads:

In giving this example, I am speaking of potential adverse consequences to children as “bitter fruit” and not of the children themselves. Every child of God is precious, and every life has priceless value regardless of the circumstances of birth.

That he felt the need to add a footnote to clarify suggests, once again, that scrutiny and dissenting voices on boards such as this one, are heard and have influence within the PR sensitive echelons of the Church. Unfortunately his footnote explanation doesn't match the structure of his sentence - which clearly is labelling out-of-wedlock births as bitter fruit growing out of the sexual revolution.

Interestingly, Peterson "heard" Christofferson say it this way:

“Adultery, promiscuity, elective abortion, and out-of-wedlock births are but some of the bitter fruits that grow out of the immorality sanctioned by the sexual revolution,” said Elder Christofferson.

Having listened to the talk whilst following the transcript, Peterson is correct, this^ is what Christofferson said. The transcript does not match what was actually said. The transcript has been amended to remove "immorality sanctioned" and add "ongoing" in front of sexual revolution. Perhaps my pointing out that the sexual revolution was 50 years ago has made Christofferson realise he was sounding very outdated...

Why can't they be honest and highlight where edits in the transcript have been made and add notes to explain why?

[_Shulem]

The children *ARE* the fruit. Compare the terminology from opposite perspectives and it's crystal clear that the children are the fruit, not just the so-called "potential adverse consequences" in an embarrassed attempt to walk it back.

A society, for example, in which individual consent is the only constraint on sexual activity is a society in decay. Adultery, promiscuity, out-of-wedlock births, and elective abortions are but some of the bitter fruits that grow out of the ongoing sexual revolution.

A religion, for example, in which teaches mutual consent in marital sexual activity is righteous. Fidelity, chastity, in-wedlock births, and having children are but some of the sweet fruits that grow out of the ongoing moral sexual choices.

The fruits are clearly listed, on one hand they are bitter, while in the other hand they are sweet. The statement says "some of the bitter fruits" meaning that there are multiple bitter fruits involved in the example and children are clearly listed as 'one' of them.

1. Bitter adultery vs. Sweet fidelity
2. Bitter promiscuity vs. Sweet chastity
3. Bitter out-of-wedlock births vs. Sweet in-wedlock births
4. Bitter elective abortions vs. Sweet children

So, we have bitter on one hand and sweet on the other. The children *ARE* the fruit!

[_Shulem]

I am speaking of potential adverse consequences to children as “bitter fruit” and not of the children themselves

Go ahead and equate consequences as "bitter fruit", but the children are most definitely listed as one of them. A tree bears apples. That's the fruit. The apple is not part of the tree per se but is an extension just like a baby is an extension of the parent. The fruit falls from the tree and makes other trees just as the baby grows and leaves its parent to make other babies.

The fruit *IS*the baby, period. Christofferson is ashamed of what he said. He's trying to walk it back and justify his seared conscience. Bottom line, Mormons have always devalued babies born out of immorality because it's their religious mindset in being better and more holier than everyone else. Take Cain's poor black babies. Those were surely a basket full of dark and bitter fruits -- cursed from the priesthood, defiled, not worthy of God's choice blessings -- and servants to the White & Delightsome race.

Mormons are hypocrites and liars. You too, DCP. You're a liar. You don't know the king's name in Facsimile No. 3 and are left to wonder why Joseph Smith hacked out Anubis's snout in a coverup.

[_Shulem]

Let's not forget that Christofferson has scriptural precedent in naming children as "bitter fruit" because the Bible is the worst culprit, guilty of depravity and shame. Words from the Bible are some of the worst things ever mentioned and all this to the guilt and shame of Jehovah god.

Blessed shall be the fruit of thy body, and the fruit of thy ground, and the fruit of thy cattle, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep.

As opposed to:

Cursed shall be the fruit of thy body, and the fruit of thy land, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep.

Cursed babies. Cursed children! Oh, don't even get me started on what murderous Jehovah does to little children in the Old Testament!

Ephraim is smitten, their root is dried up, they shall bear no fruit: yea, though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb.

[Guest]

Peterson reports the words used as follows...

“Adultery, promiscuity, elective abortion, and out-of-wedlock births are but some of the bitter fruits that grow out of the immorality sanctioned by the sexual revolution,” said Elder Christofferson.

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeters ... ruits.html

If that is an accurate transcript of what Christofferson said then he is indeed calling the birth of a child to a single parent (or parents who have not entered into a civil ceremony to formalise their relationship) a "bitter fruit". The "fruit" of such a situation is the child, and Christofferson (likely unwittingly) has just been very derogatory to children born in those scenarios.

You will note that Christofferson uses the term "the sexual revolution" to provide his audience with an enemy. Unfortunately for him, use of that phrase shows his thinking and points of reference are seriously outdated.

The sexual revolution, also known as a time of sexual liberation, was a social movement that challenged traditional codes of behavior related to sexuality and interpersonal relationships throughout the United States and subsequently, the wider world, from the 1960s to the 1980s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_revolution

That Apostles of the Church are 50 years behind the times should surprise nobody.

Sigh. It is more than a little tiresome, at times, to have to respond to howling critics, screeching hate propagandists, and caterwauling apostates. I have often empathized with Nehemiah, when Sanballat and Tobiah and Geshem the Arab, hoping to delay or even to stop the building of Jerusalem's city wall, summoned him to a meeting for negotiations. "I am doing a great work," said Nehemiah, "and I cannot come down. Why should the work stop while I leave it to come down to you?” (Neh. 6:3). Alas, as Three 6 Nehemiah sang long ago, you know it's hard out here for a Mopologist (Neh. 6:20).

Elder Christofferson may have made a tiny clarification, but both the delivered and written versions of his excellent address are perfectly consistent with my 2,000-word blog post explaining what Elder Christofferson had in mind, clearly meant, and intended to say. Just so you know.

[Guest]

caterwauling apostates

I had to look that one up. Okay, I'll gladly assume that one. Anything to defend the rights and freedoms of us wicked people who are going to be slain the day Jesus comes back and cast us into hell for at least a thousand years while the self-righteous Mormons inherit the earth -- wherein gay marriage will not be legal, porn abolished, and blasphemy against religion not tolerated.

I'll yell like a damned cat to defend my rights and call out the sick nature of religion, moreover, Mormonism. If Mormons had their way, so many basic rights we wicked people enjoy today would be abolished and illegal. I have references to prove that, if need be, but you already know them. So we're good.

[_Shulem]

Todd Christofferson worships a god who slays the bitter fruit of nonbelievers as recorded in sickening verses of the unholy Bible:

Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

infant and suckling = bitter fruit

And it came to pass, that at midnight the LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that [was] in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle.

firstborn = bitter fruit

Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished.

children = bitter fruit

Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.

infants = bitter fruit

Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

Kill all the bitter fruits!

My middle finger goes up to Jehovah! Screw you, Jehovah!

And, “F” the Mormon Church and their Goddamn apostles!